Greetings ^_^

I'm a Windows XP 32 bit user, new to Windows 7...

Moving from Windows XP to Windows 7, wondering to adopt 64 bit or remain at 32 bit
It seems to me that about 80~85% of VST's (freeware & payware) are still for windows 32 bit only.

I'm aware of 'jbridge' but never had to use it on x32.
Is that what's needed to use x32 VST's in a x64 VST host Question
- or- are there other workarounds, if so, what are they Question

ie. what is the general method of using x32 in x64 and vise-versa Question

Can I run simple freeware x32 hosts like SaviHost or VSThost on Windows 64 bit Question


* if there's already a post(s) adressing these, I appreciate any links to


Thanks for any advice.
M ^_^

 

yes with no problems. 64 bit means 64bits of data is used to transfer data. 32bit instructions fit into 64bit data bus just with a lot of unused bus. Jbridge and stuff are needed when foce 64bits of data fit into 32bit data bus.

jbridge is more if your staying 32bit or are need more memory for a 32 bit program on your 64bit system.

32bit programs work better on 32bit opperating system so for you it's the question of do you need to go 64bit yet?
Cause your stuff'll work better on 32bit

 

Thanks Zaldabar.

I understand the technicals of x32/x64, but not what is the general method of using x32 VST's in x64 and vise-versa Question


Dal.

 

Zalbadar is right, but with today's processors you don't have to worry to much about running a 32 bit apps on a 64 bit OS.

I come from XP-32 and I LOVE my WIN-7 x64. I will never go back for sure.
All my 32 bit plugins are working flawlessly with Cubase 5 (32 bit).
If occasionally I need a lot of ram for some Kontakt instruments, I load Kontakt (x64) into Studio One (x64), then bounce and import the resulting WAV into Cubase, et voilà.

Here are some useful infos : http://audiosex.pro/index.php?/topic/962-64bit-without-compatibility-problems/page__p__8115#entry8115

 

Thanks Lord Gaga.

It's just that most new netbook/notebook/ultrabook/PC come with Windows 7_x64 pre-installed !
Before I take a plunge to Win7_x64, I don't want to be unable to use my old favorite x32 VST's

 

There will be NO problem at all using your old favorite x86 VSTs on a x64 OS (if you use a x86 DAW - or jBridge in a x64 DAW).

 

Thanks again Lord Gaga.

Someone posted in another furum "You can just install your 32bit plugs,host, apps etc. etc. in c: program files (x86) . And you'll be good to go !!".

Is this true?

I've been installing all my VST's & related stuff in a different drive/partition to C:

 

Of course there are issues running 32 bit plugins and apps in a 64 bit OS DUH!!! The OS has to use an interpreter all the time while you use that win32 code. tested and proved over and over again 32 bit apps run better in XP period stop making up crap.

Dammit over and over again we need 32 bit apps with 36 bit extensions, for christs sake we have been able to use up to 64 gigs of ram starting from the goddamn Pentium PRO!!! back in 1995. Intel made the Pentium Pro with a 36bit bus.

The problem is numbnuts keep spilling this 64 drivel, wtf is wrong with you guys DONT YOU REMEMBER WIndows XP 64 bit ?
that was back in 2005 for fucks sake and microsoft killed it. Right now there would of no need for Vista crap and windows 7 as we already had a 64 bit OS back in 2005 and microsoft dumped it. Surprise vista came out 2 years after LOL nice timing

Just complete hogwash. If you want to help someone tell them the truth, the bad and the ugly

Is a 64 bit OS good ? Hell yes due to the 64 bit apps NOT THE FUCKIN OS!!! As all OS's from windows 2000 and up have PAE support so they work together with the Intel PAE on the processors to give you access to as of right now 128 gigs of ram on any 32 bit system. You know microsoft did sell Windows 2003 Server that supported up to 128 gigs of ram with PAE.

Learn people there are no ram limits, there are only the application limits.

Quit talking about the OS having limits as they don't

My windows XP 32 bit sees and uses all my 16 gigs of ram with PAE. It's just the apps tah end up using 2 gig instances but with 16 gigs of ram that is a lot of apps.

So again do the smart don't be a sucker
My advice so you are not limited by stupit ass limites imposed by companies (some limits are licenced based)
DUAL BOOT both OS and have the best of both

Patch your windows xp with the 4 gig PAE kernel. Then XP can use up to 128 gigs of ram. Remember your MOBO is very important to have PAE support.

How do you think Servers were running gigs of ram and only were 32 bit, that's right PAE which Intel has added to their processors since 1995!

Please stop saying the XP wont see more than 4 gigs as that is complete bullshit, Windows XP is limited on purpose to not use PAE.

Look at this screen and tell me why Microsoft is limiting the ram Look at the 64 bit side and see the limits, ya limits my ass, more like selling more licences.

These are the windows 7 limits
look specially at the limits of the 64 bit , home basic vs home premium vs the pro

Wake up people.

 

Dalmatian, I would highly recommend that you check out Magix Samplitude ProX... it has a 64 bit version and an x86 side, and when you are using their software, they have built in bridges that work astoundingly well for using x86 plugins in a x64 host.

 

Reaper will run all your plug ins, whether you are 32 or 64bit DAW, in any combination with 32 or 64 bit Plug ins.

No bridge required.

Any way you do it Reaper just works with no worries.

Do not fear the Reaper.

 

Well Dalmation I am using Win7 x64 and have no trouble at all running x64 and x86 software and there are plenty of x64 plugins available on this site to not have to bother using jbridge or anything like that. I am pretty sure a track recorded and processed in x86 sounds just as good as a track done on x64 but an issue you might have in trying to stay on XP is that the new software is not supported - for instance Pro Tools 9 and 10 need Win 7.
And here is a question for dan: assuming that the PAE kernel works well and there are no performance issues and you get access to all your RAM in XP, WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE IN STAYING ON XP???? - i don't doubt what you are saying I'm just asking your advice

 

I'm running Win 7 Ult. 64 bit! Haven't had any trouble with plugins incompatibilty so far. I'm even running the old H20 Wizoo Verb 2 (2005) that I dearly love with no problems at all. However, if by any chance you do run into problems with older plugins in Win 7 64 bit, besides JBridge there's another solution. I haven't done it myself, but if your computer allows for virtualization (check your bios), you can download the special "Windows XP Mode with Virtual PC" package from the Microsoft site =

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx

You can have a virtual XP (around 500 megs) running inside Win 7 - the best of both worlds! That immediately will solve any problems you might have with your favourites old x32 VST's.

 

Yep just instal 32bit softwear on Windows 7 64bit and it'll do anything it needs to get it to run, when you ask it to run.

it has a seperate Program files folder for 32bit stuff but it dosn't seem to matter if its installed in there or anywhere else

 

Unfortunately Windows x64 cannot execute 32-bit applications, they have to be emulated. And that means, that there's a performance loss. Always, even if it's minimal. Furthermore, even on a 64-bit OS a 32-bit application still won't be able to use more than 2 GB of RAM.

But if you're going for Windows 7, it should be 64-bit.

 

I have no problems with new operating systems in fact I will explain my daily routing of computing so you can understand why I do and say things I say.

First thing my main OS is not windows or mac it is puppy linux on a 1 gig thumb drive.

So my computer daw the current one
1x 2 terabyte drive has xp installed
1x 2 terabyte drive has windows 7 64 bit installed ( see I do use 64 bit)

there is inside the tower a 16 gig ans ram drive ( uses ram modules) and this thing kills any flash drive crap out there. This was the most expensive part of the computer, my friend from NZ sent it here since NZ does not have OEM laws like here in CANADA and USA. So what that means is there is no shell with it, the boards come to NZ from hong kong. OEM products can be sold to any individual in NZ. I get my computer parts from there.

okay so I boot puppy linux on my daw I run that when I am not video editing or doing audio work.
Any downloads I do go into the ANS ram drive.

XP and windows 7 both have the bblean shell installed.

And now.. why does dan like xp so much?

Well let's see I have been on it since the 2454 beta hit the net on january 2001. So we are now in 2012 and I am still on it, how many Apple OS versions have come out since? or how many things they killed along the way with uncompatibility ??
I installed xp in january 2001 and no drivers were needed. Now for an OS that has to work on thousands of different configs this was unheard of for it's time.

So the limits of apps to 2 gigs is a physical limitation?

Let's see.. When intel added PAE (36 bit bus) to the pentium pro back in 1995 that allowed the OS to now be able to address 64 gigs of ram.
This leads to the Titanic contract, intel could not make 64 bit chips so they added 36 bit extensions PAE to their cpu's .

Here is the problem that NO 32 BIT OS or 64 bit OS can solve. How do you make a 32 bit app use more than 2 gig instances?
YOU MUST CODE FOR 36 BIT EXTENSIONS ( PAE).

So why havent application developers made apps to take advantage of PAE? Since servers run those apps all the time.

That is very suspicious in itself.

Another thing why was windows xp 64 bit written off so quickly? Did micosoft see a problem for the future as in ... Shit no one is going to upgrade for 10 years...

Again ask yourself why are we using windows 7 64 bit when Windows XP 64 bit was out in 2005 already, a better OS and more faster and more lighter 64 bit OS than windows 7 will ever be.

These questions are very import, since they show the level of incompetence there is in computer knowledge. And even more mysterious is why companies did not embrace XP 64 bit? but move forward to 2009 and now they love 64 bit?

This is why there is some strange thing here, did apple ask microsoft to kill xp 64 bit? or persuade them away from it?

Something happened at Microsoft for them to ditch XP 64 bit, and it's something has to do with $$$.

This needs to be solved...

 

PAE isn't as a mirical fix like you keep going on about. It is what your processor uses to access the RAM not built into the microcontroller.

For it to be used as your hinting towards you need a main board that supports the exstended PAE. The only boards that support it have data buses that are capable of more then 32bit data transfer.
If your gonna build a board that has more then 32 bit data buses and you might as well supply it with a more then 32bit processor so that it can have a larger instruction set and work more efficently.

Moveing to 64bit in some places wasn't a sudden change, it was a gradual progression.
Makeing better use of what was already avalible.




As for windows XP 64bit
It was written off as people didn't need it. When it was released, fitting out a single PC with more than 4 Gb of RAM was pointless. Since very few people had a use for it they didn't fix most of the compatability problems it had. If somethings less then 70% compatible most people loose interest and it dies.

Remeber the number of transistors that are able to fit in to a space doubles every year. So the price drops, more people can buy that amount of memory, programs start useing that larger amount of memory. People started needing the 64bit for more memory.

People 5 years ago where more interested in haveing a version of windows that was less likely to crash then a version with larger memory buses.

To try not prevent errors caused by users with no exsperance they took the same direction as Apple and created a float system.

Window's first attempt at a Float system was Windows mellenium. Windows XP was their first fully-float system, Vista was their first dual-float system.

The old fassion opperating systems would have you give commands to the opperating system. The opperating system would relay instructions to the correct drivers in a form they understood. The drivers would convert the instructions to what the hardwear understood. The hardwear would perform the task.
Since there is very little between you and the hardwear it is easy to perform a task that would damage the system.

A float system has atleast one layer of user interface. This meas you are no longer interacting with the opperating system. If your not commanding the opperating system directally, the system can filter out your tasks and prevent harm.

Its got to the point where you interact with a layer, that interacts with a layer, that interacts with the opperating system that relays to the drivers, that command the hardwear, That performs the task.

We're getting along way from the things that do stuff.


If your looking for what to buy
Think about the programs you use
Think about whats comming out soon (new versions of the softwear ect.)
Buy whats best for the programs you use, not what seemed best when you asked around

I chose 64bit and built a system that would manage conversions till all the programs I use are avalible in 64bit. So far all but 2 programs are avalible 64bit.

 

Are you smoking something?

How did high end graphics workstations get away with using more than 4 gigs of ram for years on 32 bit operating systems?
Looks like you fell flat on your face there.

Yes PAE has been used since Intel added a 36 bit bus to the Original Pentium Pro. And it has worked for nearly 15 years in servers, 3d workstations all over the world, making the media you have seen in the past.

So the main reason why XP 64 bit was killed is very simple, Apple and Microsoft deal all the time it's just not shown in the media.

so this is 2005 and microsoft wanted companies to push 64 bit, fine by me. And don't give this bullshit as there was no computers using more than 4 gigs since this was 2005 and servers were running 32+ gigs by then, workstations running at least 8 gigs by then (graphics , video and audio).
So wtf happened by the time SP2 was about to be released?

Did you know that Microsoft made Windows XP for Amd64? and not for Intel? This is the main reason that Intel and Apple wanted XP 64 bit dead. Since later Apple like morons had to switch to Intel after all the lies and bunk talk about IBM rules, yes in the server assholes but not on desktops HAHAHAH.

And this is the reason why Apple now since they are a cell phone and small gadget company are going to ditch the mac pro's. This is not joke as apple themselves have talked about it already.

By the way no offence IBM told apple to fuck off. Since IBM was going to make the SONY, MICROSOFT XBOX360 and the WII chips, why would IBM want to make chips only for Crapple?

Ya so when you see companies like MOTU as an example switching their "Apple is god" digital performer 8 and bringing it to Windows 7 you know something big is up, and I hope all developers with their nose up apple's ass get the message apple is going to discontinue the desktops. They are already trying to ditch off their pro users.


People keep bashing microsoft and they should any company that fucks up should be scrutinized.
Look at the apple fuckups in the last 10 years all the products they killed all the devices left behind with no support, XSERVE what a joke they fooled companies into moving into then they killed it.

Apple is in my honest opinion one of the worst tech companies ever. Look at the apps they have killed EVEN FOR MAC OS.
Look at the Mac os releases apps from even the previous one had to be updated by the software developers
Look at those same developers now trying to scramble their apps into Windows since they see the writing on the wall.

I wished that Microsoft would stop dealing with Intel's bullshit and just work with AMD.

Look at it this way windows xp 64 bit would of still been around and the VISTA Debacle which was all the blame on Intel for not having their boards ready ( video card aero suport) would of never happened.

FUCK INTEL.

I hate closed shit and will not touch anything that is closed aka Apple mentality.

 

No, ok the first line I said was wrong and I don't really know why I didn't read it threw before poasting it, but I still don't get how useing parts of the data bus thats for error flags really improves it's memory capacity.

Yes I know 32bit chips have 36 pins capable of data transfer but it uses them for other things. One channel is used to say when its 0 or the maximum number, thats reasnably important. ok them pin outs aren't used often and it the case of a 0 the processor can be told to see it without the extra channel but they exsist for a reason.
Just cause you can use them for data dosn't meen its always for the best to do so.

There are a few main boards and processors that are capable of PAE without the loss of the error report system system but most never made mass production since it was too easy just to exspand the hole processor to 64bit and get a bettter processor in general.
Hence it was a gradual progression.


You keep saying they shouldn't bother makeing 64bit program and should include PAE support in 32bit programs.
To do eather they have to recode the programs, why not go 64bit and give it the potential of useing a more effective processor with the extra memory?

A 64bit system running 64bit program will always be a faster machine then an equivalent 32bit system running identical program but 32bit version.
You can get away from the fact that a processor is still a micro controller, give it more pins and more commands for the hardwear and it'll run tasks faster.

Ok not all 64bit processors have made full use of the 64bits so are exacterly the same as the 32bit versions when it comes to speed tests but the possibilities are there.

32bit processing chips are starting to reachine their limit when it comes to increaseing the performance by adding command words.
64bit chips can have twice the language

They didn't for almost everyone.
In most cases where they did, the softwear was made for that machine and the machine was a dedicated work station so had no chance of crashing due to the mods during alternative uses.


Anyway how dose bringing up these facts and conspiracy theories help someone decide the best opperating system?

 

Thanks ALL for your feedback & inputs.

^_^

 

Excellent Balzadar nicely put.

By the way I was not kidding Amd just release an OPTERON processor X86 mind you, with 16 cores
X86 is not going away and AMD is proving that!!!

In fact with 4 chip layout that is 64 cores

Where is Intel ? Ya servers is not where Intel dominates anymore, as AMD is kicking ass in large servers.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/embedded/processors/opteron/Pages/opteron-6100-series.aspx

So you can see where AMD is heading and it's X86.

Intel is licencing 64 bit processor technology from ? Ya AMD !!! lol this is hilarious Intel could not make a 64 bit processor without AMD patents and help.