Hello,

my Computer is getting old and isn't that fast as it used to be. So i want to buy a new computer. But not sure if i should buy a i5 or a i7 processor!? I know i7 can do hyperthreading but not sure if working with a DAW is really a case for hyperthreading (as i have read on presonus forum - i would interpret it that it can work with HT but that working with DAW isn't a case for HT) or how much is benefit of have a CPU with Hyperthreading.

Could please help me?

Oh and i tried out to find out this infomation at Presonus website but i missed the information if there is an advantage to use HT!

Thanks in advance.

Greets,
Jack

 

Hi Jack if you have the money go for Intels xeon e7 series these have up to 10 cores and 30m cache

xeon e7 series

 

Yes, at about $4616 (Recommended Customer Price) per unit !!! you're better off having the financial means of your ambitions ! *yes*

 

Well, i have both imacs, i5 and i7, running Logic Pro as my main DAW, sometimes rewired with Ableton Live.
To tell you the truth, i don't see much difference between the two machines. If money is the issue, go for i5 but make sure you put in a lot of RAM, you're gonna need it!

 

I am very happy with the FX amd 8 Core.

And to finally prove my theory that going to 64 bit was all about money AMD just released and OPTERON X86 with 32 CORES!! for servers GOT YA!!!

64 bit is not about ram support, 32 bit servers have never had any problems with more than 4 gigs of ram in fact I installed a 32 bit server ( Windows 2003 ADS server years ago that had 64 gigs of ram).

The apps for that server all had to be 32 bit apps but with PAE support DUHH!!!! of course if they were regular 32 bit they would be stuck at 2 gigs.

All this 64 bit crap was just to make money for the industry, well what about speed? Well turns out 64 bit sucks with only one core, so they had to add more cores but for what? it's been years ( since fuckin 1996 that we have had 64 bit alpha chips just ask the people who worked on the Titanic movie for christs sake)
Only now do we have the apps to finally take advantage of 64bit ? BULLSHIT. The problem was the industry did not want server boards out there on the loose so people would start using them and realise that server boards have FULL PAE SUPPORT. That has always been the problem, all processors support PAE out of the box, the problem is Intel and the big server board companies did not want boards out there that support PAE

We did not need to go 64 bit how many times must I say this!!

We needed boards that have FULL PAE support and apps with full PAE suppport, just like the apps made to run on servers.

And now because of morons no offence who listen to idiotic OH NO we need 64 bit to get more ram nonsense, we are going to be stuck on cores and no speed increases going forward, as it has become much easier and more profitable to add cores.

F*** INTEL!!
IBM told apple to f*** off, and Intel was in deep shit so they joined apple.

AMD still is my recommended processor, due to the openness of the processor and especially the boards you run them on AKA FULL PAE SUPPORT!!! That is why I run AMD FULL PAE SUPPPORT!!!

Here you go Intel had PAE support in their processors since 1995
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_Pro
"It also had a wider 36-bit address bus (usable by PAE), allowing it to access up to 64GB of memory"

Another history fact.. Russia was using HD TV transmissons, but the sets had to be almost made in a lab and lacked a lot of features still HD in the 1950's.

If you don't believe me just keep believing in Santa Claus.

 

Hackintosh:
Lion 10.7.3
Logic Pro v9.1.7
CPU: Intel i7 3.2GHz Quad-Core
Motherboard: Gigabyte x58a-udr3 rev. 2
Grafic Card: Gigabyte GTS 450
6GB Ram: Corsair

price: 950 CHF (swiss Fr.) like 900 Dollars

and i'm realy happy with it!

 

Hey Lisa nice setup. including the "hakintosh" as I run one as well for "testing purposes"

Amd FX 8 core (updated system)
16 gigs system ram
16 gig ANS ram drive
2 x2 terabyte drives

DualBoot with WinXP 32 bit/ Windows 7 64 bit ( only 64 bit apps for video editing no mix of 32bit I already explained why mixing is a bad idea)

Edirol FA101 modded drivers for 1.2 ms latency support

And REAPER!!! my goto #1 app.

Instruments - A couple of guitars
Midi keyboards
Digitech 2112 SGS
POD HD 500
E-drum kit
Line 6 Spider III amp
Hot CABS 250 watt head + 4x12 celestion cabs
and diy yourself midi cables, adapters, A/B/Y switches .....

No wonder my hands have solder burn marks LOL

I try to build everything myself with the expertise of my PC tech guy who has a store nearby.

 

I use a i5 and it works fast enough for me

Intel(R) Core(TM) ie-2500k CPU @ 3.30GHz
You don't need to know the other stuff

The only differance I remeber between i5 and i7 is if it has virtual cores. i7 is normally 4 cores with 4 virtual cores, i5 is just 4 cores.
I may be wrong, it's been awile.

If your finding your old PC slow, Remeber to have at least the same processor Clock speed.
The processor clock speed still determins most of the overall speed, even in these multi core things.
A 8 core 1GHz processor will never work faster then a 2 core 3GHz processor when it comes to opperating the current DAWs. The DAW's don't have enough simultanious tasks most the time, as far as I've see to need that many cores all the time, so the extra cores sit idle most the time.

Basically if you go from a 3.5GHz single core processor (high end P4) to a 4 core 2.1GHz processor (standard i5) you'll see little improvement, You may even find it slower at times.



All I can suggest is at least keep the same clock speed if you can't get a processor with a higher clock speed.



Also in both the i5 and i7 series, there are 100's of models of processor. I only know the 3 models I've try'd. The model I stated is the best out of the 3 and is up the top.

(For people who've forgotten the processor's clock speed is the GHz bit, you know like 3GHz)

 

I bought a MSI GT683DXR gaming laptop 4 months ago and for $1400 was the single best investment I ever made to date on all fronts.nvidia dedicated gtx570 1.5Gb video card,2nd gen i7,2 USB 3 ports,16gb ddr3 ram which I upgraded to 32Gb and the cpu and gpu can be overclocked.It is so quiet you can use it in the room while you record and only uses 120 watts of power!!! I have not found a game it cannot play on max settings or make it glitch with too many plugins.

 

Don't get an i5.. not worth the small price diff.

I use an i7... very happy.

 

@ Dan the price says it all between Intel & Amd

 

Inndeed between the stupit and the smart- Intel pay he premium while they sell to oems for $10 per processor while you pay.... LOL.. That's why it's AMD all the way for me. My systems run circles around those I7 junks

In fact I think AMD is going ahead with X86 since they really don't believe that 64bit is going anywhere

They just released an OPTERON X86 with 32 cores, so there my rambling has been proven before all doubts.

Again for the fools out there we have been able to access 64 gigs of ram since the PENTIUM PRO CAME OUT IN 1995
That is why Intel put that on the processors a 36 bit bus to USE PAE on servers so they could access if they could afford it 64 gigs of ram !!!

So enough of this stupit ass mentality WE DONT need 64 bit NOT even for apps, the server 32 bit apps can access now 128 gigs of ram on Windows 2003 Server 32 bit.

Now ask yourselves this then ... Why don't we have our apps as 32 bit with 36 bit extensions ( for PAE access)

Don't all of you find that very strange?


So your "need 64 bit for more ram" brainwashing is kind of very stupid.

 

Thanks to all for your feedback.

Don't you think there is big price difference between i5 and e7 xeon? But nice to know ..

Sounds good. Think i gonna start with 16gb of RAM. But not sure about the CPU it think it's gonna be a 3820 it's not an Ivy has bigger l3 Cache, the motherboards are more expensive but you are getting max. 64 gb / 128 gb instead of 32 gb RAM and quad instead of dual channel memory. Oh and yes it need a little bit more power (100 vs. 77 Watt).

Oh i read your 36-Bit/64 Bit threads already. It is interesting and hey i have no problem to imagine that what you so say is true. May you are right to set on the good players - but for me i'm not sure how good the will be if the have more force. Or better said i think most of them do any kind of limitations. Oh Intel already doing it again. Those hexacore are native octacores.

And is it all about the hardware? What does it help if i buy AMD? i still have to use an an OS and if wanna use more the 4 gb RAM it has to be a official 64 (or 36) Bit OS?
If i read and look to Benchmarks the AMD FX 8 Core is somewhere between the (older) i5 and i7 (not sure if the k one or not) but there are also new generation of i5 and i7 that aren't that much faster but they are so why should i buy an AMD?

I have read some Hackintosh stuff. Would be nice to see what have changed during four new versions of Logic (have used 4.* which you could use on PC as well). Thats good enjoy it! *yes*

Yes i7 can do hyperthreading but as far as i understand using a DAW is not a case for that.
And this what i thought more Core and CPU speed is essential, those virtual core in combination with a DAW not that much. Right now i have an old Pentium IV (with a virtual core) - a single core? - with 3Ghz. Oh and yes i think my lowest new CPU will 3.4 GHz. But i think it may get this 3820 with 3.6 Ghz (not sure how much / if you can tweak like a k-Version but i think max turbo could be enough for a while.

What about the RAM speed it will double up once because of the higher ground speed (think) 800 to 1600 MHz and could doupled again using quad instead of dual channel memory.

Sounds good (also the price). Wasn't 16gb enough? So you don't use a desktop CPU?

That is good - wanna get happy (again) with my DAW. Right now you can also think about to invest in a never socket. 3820 is about the same price as the 3770. Looking at the Datasheet you could expect the 3820 will be faster (surely not that much).



Greets,
Jack

 

Hi Jack yes there is price difference, you get what you pay for in this life.
It's like Cognac you buy a $2 bottle it will taste like Brandy, You buy $500 bottle it will taste like Cognac

@ Dan just Two questions why does my machine run a lot smoother when its running 64 bit and why does mates Amd system max out when I take projects round for him to work on when the cpu on my machine at 40-50%. And both systems are about the same spec

 

Very simple uninstall the Intel system drivers, why do you think intel systems have to have it installed lol.
then run the project LOL Intel will say mmmm something wrong here.

Also check your friends task manager he may be running some extra services which of course if you have been reading my posts that is the biggest issues with computers, useless services like Windows 7 has 8 services for network alone.
XP has 3 see my point?

I used to run Intel a while back but there was way too many issues, no overclocking built in like the FX series, the mobos are always locked up for the Intel's ( Gee I wonder why hehehe). The intel boards don't have hardware PAE.

The amd boards do have it , I know because My XP 32 bit sees all my ram and has no issues, with Intel boards it's a hit an miss. This is why I went to the AMD side so I could dual boot both OS and not worry about imposed limits.

I ran my system against the latest I7's and it was laughable, but I do give credit to Intel on gaming, they have a bit of an edge there, probably by pushing companies to push a certain CPU?. But thee Intel systems could of been faster or equal but you need a good pc tech to build your machine, why do you think people spend thousands ( double the pc value) for a MAC?

By the way AMD is pushing back to the front X86 they released the new Opteron X86 with 32 cores. So again here we go again on why we did not continue with PAE...... Amd is showing us the way again.

With all the hardware and 2 monitors was about $2000 can. And I am very happy with this system

By the way if you dont want to listen that is fine, history repeats itself..
here is a screenshot from microsoft with the windows 7 ram limits and tell me why the fuck is microsoft limiting ram in 64 bit unless for money and licencing kernel ram limits. Remember even apple did this as well when they sold Mac OS Server a few years back.

Not being a jerk here but why has microsoft imposed limits on a 64 bit OS?
Again you are still not paying attention .. All Operating systems and CPU's have support PAE ( up to 128 gigs of ram) for well over a decade. Thhe problem was the MOBO companies were in bed with the OS vendors Microsoft and Apple, and we never had the Mobo PAE hardware until now, is it not funny that we now have those board but not needed since they forced people over to 64 bit which again was not needed to begin
with!!!

I will send you $20 just to prove that screenshot wrong.
That is how I am, brutal honesty, if you can prove that screen is wrong and Microsoft does no put limits on the desktop OS's then you just made yourself $20..

 

@ Dan can you not read its the Amd that has trouble and like I said they are about the same spec meaning the switched off services(24) and 800mb ram running. they are both same and running windows 7 x64.I have 2g of ram more on my setup

I can get xp x64 running 9 services and 64mb ram


Hay I know the difference between X86 & X64 My job was Installing A\V suites with 500x500Gb RAID systems and guess what not one was x86 because of the 4g ram limit. because 50mims of Raw HD film footage is about 1.5 Tb's. So a film is between 4-5 Tb's.

 

Problem is I gave up on windows xp x64, the reason why it was kind of killed off was the microsoft would then have problems putting out another 64 bit desktop OS aka Vista that is why they dropped support for XP 64 bit

I don't use it due the issues it has with some hardware and applications. I know I wish I could!!!


So I installed dozens of servers and AD. So they were all windows 2003 Server 32 bit years go on systems with more than 16 gigs of ram in that time ( was around here in Canada at some big insurance company). Since they had PAE on the boards they had no issue with the 4 gig ram limits. It's called PAE and has been around since the Pentium Pro ( around 1995)

I still don't understand why to this day people are still brainwashed over the 4 gig ram limits IMPOSED by the microsoft desktop kernels, since the Microsoft Server OS don't have these limitations


Also did you not read? Amd just release the Opteron with 32 cores for Servers. Get it: X86 it's not a 64 bit processor. Servers don't need this 64 bit shit, they have no limits with PAE. They use PAE enabled mobo's so we the little guys don't get them in a desktop board, but with amd boards many have PAE support.


Untill I see intel do what AMD does and open up their processors it's intel users who are going to kept in the dark like sheep. I will run circles around any i7 stuff. READ if you can: Intel has an advantage over the games, since they have strict deals with uhmmmm EA and others hence why some games work better on AMD systems and Some are much better on Intels. Still your mileage may vary

I did not want to deal with limits hence why I went with AMD and have no issues at all. So this way my xp can use and see all my ram due to the board having PAE on. I also patched the kernel to 100% support is on.

Is anyone going to take up the $20 or it's all talk?

 

PEA means, your system can manage over 4 GB Ram on x86 cpu, that is right!

BUT:

PEA do not solve the problem to adress over 4 GB ram for 1 process. You have to split bigger processes with a complicatet alghorithm, which will cost cpu-time!

 

I hope jack got what he needed cause this looks like it's gonna dive into a nother 32/64bit argument.

The thing I don't get and thats why people talk of the capabilities of survers.
I don't have a surver in my house, do you? Dose it make that much differance? Should we all buy them to run audio softwear?


dan uses a modded opperating system. When you've changed the shell and alterd the driver and .dll files I don't think you can really call it by the name of what it was but that's my oppinion.
I think of it as making a frankinstine monster and still saying it's the person that the big toe belonged to, it's a man's body, a differant guy's brain and another man's head but it's still her cause there's her big toe.
It just dosn't work like that for me.

If you have a modded version, optimised for audio, no new general version will ever be better then the modded version.
Don't compair them then tell people to do stuff unless your willing to give them exacterly what you have



To try and be some help to Lukie, processors have alot more to them then what we bother looking at. Processors are a off branch of micro controllers. Like micro controllers the arcutecture, type of program memory and language set all effect the speed.

The type of memory I can't remeber ever being told straight out about any processor. Some times theres 1 type and in 1 block, sometimes its in 2 block and sometimes it's 2 differant types. The memory holds data needed during the current process and is used in the chip to hold the BIOS. That's the BIOS of the chip, what tells it it has this much memory built in, this clock speed and is called AMD whatever.
Some memory types take more time then others to read, all of them have differant times for write.

The acrutecture is company secreat, we'll never see how they connected the parts to do it but it differant in each model. The arcutecture or layout is done to optimise performance and tempriture.

The language set is important if your staying 32bit. 64bit processors have a 64bit language, 64bits in each instruction word. If they are used in a 32bit machine more then half of its instructions are useless as they are to big for the data bus. This mean to do the same task on a 32bit system it takes 8 or 9 times longer then it would on a 64bit opperating system like it's built for.
Each version of intel i5 will have a differant size language set.
Big sets mean complicated tasks can be done with fewer instructions to components. If you need to dump data to memory and only have a few instructions it'll have to state location in memory, state data, state it wants it written there. If you have a big languate you'll most likely have a instruction that will do all that in one command.

So better layout, faster and more money. Better memory type, faster and more money. Bigger instruction set, faster and more money.

Basically the clock speed and number of cores dosn't tell you everything about how well the processor opperates but it's enough to get a general idea. It also seems to be all that the companies think we need to know about their products.

If you don't understand it don't worry about it. This infomation won't effect your mixing or song writeing, it's just whats in your processor. Most people don't know whats even in the box we call a pc and manage to use them.

And jack go with what you know will be better then what you had, what ever you feel it is.
I use i5 and the versions of i5 alot of people on here have try'd can't cope. Mines manageing with no problems what so ever and little of it's really being used, when ever I've botherd looking.

(a interesting thing to remeber wile shopping is 2nd generation i5 are faster then 1st generation i7 of similar clock speed, I can't remeber why something about throtteling?)

 

So Dan what you got to say on Mac's 128bit Os.

Anyway I am getting my 8bit zx back out it's the way forward is to go backwards dont you know.

This Amd you are going on about all time how many cores are virtual cores and how many are real out of the 32, Xeon has 10 real cores and this is what you pay for.

The way I see it is Amd on paper might have the speed but Intel have got the power or put it another way is you don't see formula 1 cars ploughing fields