@kooper Yes, MIDI is a helpful tool for replacing musicians that you can't find in real life. And it is also true that each band, in the past as well as now, is trying hard to play as good as possible. But that's the difference between a human being and a computer. For example, it is called a drum machine for a good reason. As a drummer, you wouldn't think that a drum machine track will beat you in terms of musicality, would you? You feel the music and adapt your playing to it. I could play a few notes on a guitar, and you would be able to jam along instantly. No machine can do so.
For decades programmers try to replicate a human in a computer. Only when not aiming for perfection, the results become more convincing. The same is true for music. It is this subtle human feel that makes the real perfect music, not the perfect timing to the microsecond.

And I bet that those who "blow you away with artistry" have some of that human subtleties in their music, no matter the genre.

 

@Von_Steyr, here are my thoughts on this: music becomes music (in my opinion) when a human touch is evidently there, intention. You won't strike a key twice with the same intention and feel, nor strike a drum or hit a string twice with the same feel. That's when intention is laid down in music, when that happens. I do not believe in 'drawn' music that is perfectly on the grid with exactly the same velocity and same pulse whether it comes from synths or drum computers for the same reason I don't believe that having a close relationship between a man and a computer will ever work out: there's no feeling other than a calculated outcome, no dynamics (although in some occasions I wonder if some people are aware of this ) You can not base a relationship on that, it's cold, distant and lacks every sense of human feel. So does music that is made by computers, the kind where you immediately hear that it was not played by human hand. The same goes for heavily autotuned vocals, they sound like Mickey Mouse to me. Although many people try to believe that it is not the case, Mickey Mouse does not exist other than through a manipulated voice and animated body. Music made by computer with the whole range of programs that enable people who can't actually play an instrument, sounds very deadish to me. That's where I draw the line. If you can't play keyboard, learn how to do it. If you can't play any stringed instruments, practice. That human feel makes the big difference. Music has become a very volatile good these recent years. By the way.....many consumers of music worldwide notice the difference.http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2016...elling-new-music-for-the-first-time-ever.html

 

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Absolutely agree.
Also,lately i have also started buying cds again after a few year hiatus especially non mastered older releases,they are rather cheap on ebay.
The hypebot article pretty much sums it all up.

 

I believe the problem doesn't lie in the technology available. Drum machines and computers are not harming music. They can't. They're just tools. The problem lies in the way technology is sold to us. Think about the way music technology is publicized on websites and specialized magazines:

- Get this one-knob hardware emulation that will give you instant warmth and wow factor.
- Try out the new two-bus processor that X artist uses to mix. You are just $150 short of being him.
- Saturate tracks with X technology from outer space. Just crank up the JUICE knob and you'll have mixes with outer-space distortion.

I know I'm going over the board with this but you get my point. The message behind technology is simple: Pay through the nose for our R&D because zeros and ones cost nothing, and in return, you'll do less and less. The automation promise is killing music. People really believe that computers will provide the artistry needed to make masses move to the pulse of a DJ loop.

 

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I moved away from computers to sequencers, because there is more of a bond than there is with a computer. I have one old and one new. The thing I don't like with the new one is it has auto quantize, that cannot be disabled, so I always find myself using the older one to compose my tracks on. This means that my inconsistencies comes out in the music. I can quantize after, but I prefer not to, unless I do something really gash, but usually I'll delete it and do it again. The new sequencer does have a rather awesome swing function though, with lots of different swing styles, and you can use a different style on the individual tracks. Would like to get one of those old Roland Octopads at some stage so I can use it to do drums.
The old drum machines weren't that good at keeping time or sinc with each other, so that gave them a character of their own, which is something I feel is lost with in the box stuff.
Take this Track by Marshall Jefferson. All sequenced before going into the studio to record, but if you listen to it, by today's standards the timing is all over the place. You would be hard pushed to replicate this in the box.

 

It's not always a case of just pressing a button. Electronic drums are a halfway-house between technology and human feeling, or even tapping out some rhythms and using drum replacement to add some life. You can also program realistic drum parts if you know what you are doing, but it takes a bit of skill to make it sound musical.

 

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Tulamide, thanks for sharing that great story and reminding me of my past; a Roland SH-101, delay and phaser pedals, Hitachi double cassette player, he he. At least you had a drum machine and polyphony!
The 101 was used for all sounds, incl.percussion. It was hell to sync the cassettes with the built-in step sequencer!
Usually the cassette would drift out of sync and I had to fiddle with the Pause button slow it down.

I did get R-5 and JX-8p later, and the R-5 I used as sequencer for the Jx.

 

That is how most advertising works, to try and persuade you to buy into an untruth in order to live their lie, buy their brand of stuff and become brand loyal consumer that buys the product for always and ever. It works really well. Think about this tiny bit of information for just one second and it might change the way you think about...stuff. A "brand" is a mark that is burned into an animal to prove ownership. That is what this kind is based upon. Really.
In this case they only wish to burn it into your mind. I myself have a few burned into mine.

 

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This is MY opinion. I am VERY experienced because I have been around a long time. I have been fooled many times by technology. It really depends on the USER. If a user settles for stale sounds then yes it is not good, but if the user knows what he is doing with it it can be enhanced. If you settle for drum machine sounds, then yes it is not good, but being a drummer I could probably get better sounds from the drum machine than a non drummer, because I know what is needed. The drum machine itself does not make this difference. Maybe what we are talking about here is technology makes it easier for people to settle for boring. It is still true that the user of the technology can make a huge difference in the outcome just by not settling for boring. If your work using a drum machine is boring then you were not done with your work when you settled.

I used to think I could pick out programmed. I eneded up telling a real sax player that his work was programmed, and offending him. I was sure it was programmed, and that one instance really proved to me that I didn't have the descerning ear I thought I did. Really we all might be surprised. I am a firm believer that the results (even when technology is used) are dependent on the producer.

There is a lot of ego involved and we all like to think we are irreplaceable. It depends on the user, and what they settle for. Not the tools used, but more HOW THEY ARE USED> My opinion.

 

+1

 

It's funny because I was thinking about that the other day. Since the late 90s,and this year, we will not move forward. We live very bad days since many years, and it is affected in the current music. Besides, what I see the number of requests for samples from Hip Hop, R&B, Future RnB, Psy Trance and all the others, we understand why we have shit in the ears night and day..!

 

Yep.
I can honestly say that i dont like the direction in which our society is headed.
We could do so much better.
Us 30+ old members remember a time when the world was a lot more stable,balanced and just more fun to be around.
The word dehumanization comes to my mind and it shows in music,oh how it shows.

 

i was going to ask a question , what is real music ? with all the digi stuff we got now a days where does one define music , is it pure acoustics , or is digital a new acoustic , does music come from memory , skill of play ability , hand written data , where can one draw the line , even if its easy does that disqualify , or is tech just allowing a lot of copy paste , i still dont know how to word the question , its really just makes me angry so i stop thinking about it .....

 

The trouble is a lot of young people wouldn't know any different, as far as they are concerned things like this are the norm

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wpf78d1uB...GcpXx07MALc/s640/0000000000000000000miley.JPG

 

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Great post friend.
A norm,maybe in a whore house.
Do what you want,fuck it,its just 10 year olds that are your main fan base.
Call me a dictator if you want,but i would send assholes like this dumb fuck to a gulag for destroying our youth.
10 years of mandatory work.How do you like them apples?

 

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It is not the first time that I take part in a discussion here on the forums, but I'm still surprised that there is at least one who takes it personal. I never said it wouldn't be your opinion. I also never said you wouldn't be VERY experienced. In fact, I assumed you being experienced, else I wouldn't have tried to argue with your experience as a drummer. And lastly it seems that you didn't understand what I was talking about. For example, this is a statement I made in this very thread:

See the difference? I'm not at all saying it's the tools. I say it's how the tools are used. Sounds familiar? Btw, I have been arround a long time, too. Does that qualify me more?
You made an important example: "being a drummer I could probably get better sounds from the drum machine than a non drummer, because I know what is needed."
That is what I'm talking about! You know, how a human drummer works and therefore adapt the machine to this feel (within its limited capabilities), and that makes the difference!

Lastly, the song you linked, is wonderful and contains a whole lot of that human feel.

p.s. I wish people would understand me. I don't know if it is a language barrier or if I'm just too dumb to express myself. Or maybe because people can suffer from tunnel vision.

 

It would be interesting to know exactly who or what is behind the "message", but that is a question for another forum. However, your use of the term 'dehumanisation' resonates, as that is exactly what is going on here. Miley's transition from innocent Disney child star to major league slut seems a bit too well orchestrated, and as you stated they are clearly targeting a very young audience.

 

ridiculous.. that can't be Miley Cyrus? she actually has a body and some boobs, so who is it

a co-worker of mine recently showed me a video of her neice who is on the road to becoming
a teen star, it was the usual pop tripe love interest song , with some pseudo greaser boy spewing obscenities
as the rap side of the performance, this is what the youth are taking into their brains as entertainment,
I can't even stretch to call it music..

I never thought of myself as prudish, but this stuff is just utter trash..

edit: ok seems Miley had a boob job.. obviously not one of her followers

 

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Pfft. Having the options 2 make muzak however u want 2 is never a bad thing. We're in a golden age, and I can record shit in one) take liek teh good old days if I wanna (and I just have done). I can step-input shit like a robot and use an ARP and then auto-LFO params then "perfectly" fuck it up with Stutter-Edit until it sounds liek nothing else (and I just have done). It depends on my mood, how "perfect" it sounds is my design. This is a negative thing? I just wish that DAW makers weren't so rigidly stuck in the past! I want mind-meld music scanned direct from my synapses...

Why does using (for example) digital recording take you "on grid"? Indeed, to me using digital recording opens up music to people who are most avant-garde.

Hehs. Let's hope that this would-be guitarist had a bit moar ambition!

 

i don't think tech is the problem, tech is a tool, the way you use it its up to you, even when u decide to hide imperfections the problem is not the tech but the choice maker, after all a lot of software tries to mimic imperfections via various method , round robin, "bad" samples etc etc.

The thing is, sometimes tech may help you, when i was 16 i had to save money for long before being able to pay my share to record the first demo of our band, today i would spend much less using kontakt..