The people back in day were being as perfect as they could.

The errors were not made on purpose, but when you have limitations you learn to live within them, a singer might sing differently if he tries on passage 99 times and still sucks at doing it the way he thinks he should but can not. Today that same singer will try three or four times and then asked for it to be fixed in post.

Writing music hasn't changed other than instead of paper you now have a staff on a computer and you can experiment a bit more with sound, whereas before you had to note down everything and then have an orchestra or a band play it and then modify from there.

What has changed the most is accessibility - anyone who wants to can call themselves a composer and actually compose something, whether they understand what they are doing or not... this is not a bad thing.

Cost has also changed dramatically, the cost to record and distribute has pretty much been trivialized to the point where it is almost non-existent. This increases the signal to noise ratio and everyone can now dabble in art and since art is so eclectic there are so many different methods that a newcomer can get caught up in the process rather than finding a way to express their own vision.

What has also changed is marketing and appreciation, people have become somewhat polarized in what they like because they are spoiled for choices, and the rate at which one can imitate an other has been making things get stale very fast. When music transitions from art to a mass consumed media product is must serve not only the lowest common denominator but also the masters that demand profit from it. This has not just affected music, the same phenomena is pervasive in medicine in some countries; people go into medicine not because they care about health and humanity... but because its a good way to make money, and when they get there, they focus on making medicine profitable instead of good.

These are all social problems and do not really have anything to do with technology.

 

A lot of music in the old days went through an arranger, who were an integral part of the music business.

 

Yes,kick ass song.

 

This is what i like about the lounge debates,many different views and opinions.
It certainly demands a more complex answer,as a matter of fact there are many possibilities as to why certain things are the way they are.
We tend to over simplify things and try to find quick simple answers.

 

@Herr Durr , yeah track is pretty busy and if y're not really aware what to listen to you won't hear it. I've got the stems of the track and it's quite obvious listening to only the drums. There's a docu about Stevie where George Martin anecdotes this happening, I've looked for a link but can't find it, If I do I'll post it here. Cheers!

 

He still is.

 

Those clothes alone have seen more pussy than the whole Justin Bieber generation of metrosexuals

 

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Ok, this is my personal experience with this topic. Back in the late eighties I made my music with an Alpha Juno and a TR-505, dubbing over and over again with my double-cassette-deck. I also had a two man project running with a friend. Of course I shared my own music with him as well, to hear his opinion.
Now, playing 4 or 5 minutes without pauses (no punch in punch out or whatever technique available on a hifi cassette deck) is quite a challenge for someone who is not a trained pianist. Which means, there were little errors here and there. A too late entry, for example, or a short wrong or unwanted note. I was always ashamed of it. It all was so prominent.

Well, the friend and I lost contact completely, after I started a job in another city. Ten years went by, and I got back to my home town. One day the friend and I totally accidentally met and the next day we had a very nice evening, telling each other what happened in all those years. To my surprise he was continuing making music, just with another singer. But the oddest thing was that he used all of my compositions that I shared with him on cassettes. He arranged them all completely new with Notator and a bunch of cool synths. And when he played the tracks, guess what, all the little imperfections were in there! Really all. At one point I started to laugh, and he asked why. I said that a certain note in the intro of a song ( a quarter above the fundamental) wasn't supposed to be there, that I made a mistake. He answered that exactly this note would make the intro so perfect...

So, yeah, it's not the technology. It's the lack of courage to not correct an imperfection

 

One great difference today compared with so many recordings in the past is that what was recorded was an actual performance of the band playing the entire song through, even if it was just the rhythm section (the bass and drums) or another instrument like the rhyhm guitar or keyboard, and this of course only able to happen after the advent of multi-track recording. Overdubs came later, throwing in lead parts, and of course the singer would most likely sing in isolation to try and get as perfect a take as possible. Contrast that with most of the situations we see today; people sitting alone in their room and lacking in any real musical skill but with a bunch of tools to help them sound not anything like what they actually do. We have singers who can't sing, drummers with no sense of timing and "producers" who believe that tweeking every note into the deathly grip of the grid is a righteous and true calling and one that will make them a star. There should be no rules when it comes to creating art, but soulless art is something that I personally am not down with. It bores me. Using samples and cutting and pasting is all good, but for me it belongs in a different category than work recorded with people actually playing instruments specifically for the song in mind. I feel like The Dust Brothers are great, for instance, but there is lots and lots in that vein that just plain sucks an egg. Sometimes I sit at home alone in my room and the impetus to tweak for the sake of tweaking is powerful. I think that it comes about because I am not proficient or practiced in every instrument that I am playing and I try to make up for my shortcomings. I should ask for help instead of relying on the easy way out.

Anyway, here is a cool bit of documentation of Sinatra and others recording one of his classic songs. His vocals are technically iffy, but that is partially what makes the song so terrific. What do you think?

Check out the desk that the producer and engineers are recording through. It looks like a Universal Tube Recording Console full of old original 610 modules.

 

F-ing amazing,thanks for sharing bro.
In the video he says the problem with some of the new singers(in the 60s) was that you couldnt understand them,the clarity,diction is not there.
And its so true,you can understand every word Sinatra sings.

 

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This is interesting, as they are talking about old tech and new.

 

The topic has already swung into a new direction, and please allow me to ask: How are we dealing with this issue? Is it actually an issue? Can we face up to it and create more organic music? If we are here sharing ideas and discussing this is because we ourselves are into the audio production world and we care for its outcome. Let me give you an instance. I record live drums and I never use a click track with a drummer (unless they explicitly ask for it). I prefer them to warm up and deliver one solid take, like a concert, mistakes and all. I always quantize after the fact once the drums are recorded. I've learned It's easier in the long run to fix drum hits and the steadiness of a beat than mixing a dull drum performance because of the stiffness of the click. However, I do cheat up with technology. For example, if an already recorded track needs a layer of acoustic guitar, I nine out of ten times will use Band In A Box real tracks. I use it too for rhythmic guitars and sax solos. What I don't use so much anymore is loop samples. I find them kind of limiting in options.

 

Sinatra, Gilmore & Palladino.
As someone earlier stated 'it takes balls to leave the mistake in the take' I'm paraphrasing... It does. It also takes another level of involvement in music. One you can not aquire from working on a DAW, but only from tracking live musicians over and over, or better even play an instrument well, and playing with others. Understanding the metaphysical workings of playing together, which involves training & practice. Not every mistake makes a take exceptional, but some do. People have gotten so used to this over-polished thing we call mainstream, appart from the electronic & dance music landslide we had the past 25 years, that anything out of that sterile canvas has to be odd. Incorrect. Offkey. Out of the box, no pun intended. I don't think it is entirely to blame on tech-evo and the tools we have today. It's to do with the way the top layers of the industry work. They're a bizniz and want to make a profit. Anywhichway. Then there's the wannabe's that follow and imitate, and pretty much that creates a culture of sorts, a standard as such. Look at the loudness thing. Same principle. Auto-tune, same story. We could brand it the Melodyne-culture. But I think in time we will be drawn back to the live-ness of music. The spontaneity and human musical elastics. Because, after all, thats where the true magic of music hides ...

 

Completely agree. It has become easy to aim for perfection and achieve "perfection" now. This doesn't just go for music, but society. From people altering their looks to look more perfect, girls (and guys) on Instagram trying to look as perfect as possible etc...

Moreover... There is a reason there has been a boom in vinyl record sales over the past year. Several reasons, maybe nostalgia etc... but everything today with music seems almost all soulless because they sound so perfect. Vinyls had amazing sound, but one main feature thatwasn't intended was the imperfections of the crackle and noise. This alone makes me feel warm when I hear it on an old record. A lot of pop producers and non pop use recorded crackle, pop, noise and other sounds to emulate that original feeling. Those imperfections in a song that sounds too perfect.

I think we've reached a stage where technology has allowed people to be "perfect" (or at least close to it as possible). However I have a feeling that this has only just arrived and will go soon. People are flocking towards hi fidelity and perfect mixes, auto tune etc... but I think over time we'll get bored of the same sound (as we always seem to) and the mass majority of people will always want more and better. As humans we always strive for more and better. This perfection will have to evolve into a stage where it feels more perfect, but with imperfections and more human aspects. Maybe we'll get bored of the same perfect sound and go more organic, just like the food industry seems to be going. People want to feel more natural in a synthetic world, then maybe more live aspects where imperfections can make the mix will be important in the future. The future will be interesting, especially from a musical point of view. I refuse as a musician and artist that we'll let this, almost, 'dilemma' of technology going towards perfection to impede the progression of music.

 

It isnt just art that suffers, it is culture and even our brains. We become more stupid by the day.
Our leaders are narrowing the "think-box" around us. We are becoming vegetables, sedated with
with comfort, hypnotizing lights and fancy toys. Its really scary.

 

Well, the barriers to entrance in the music industry and many others are very, very, very low. There almost isn't a a barrier to entering the music industry now. You could even make a song on your phone to start with now. You can get full professional sounding studio mixes from your laptop. So the ease to get into the music industry and make something audible is fairly easy. Because of this, I think it makes it easier for the true artists with creativity to stand out, or maybe even harder for the to stand out in the crowd. So when we are becoming vegetables and such, I think it allows the true creatives to come out and stand out in the saturated market. When everyone pretty much sounds the same. The true individuals that harness technology and everything around them and makes what they can of it will stand out and make a difference.

 

@gurujon.. indeed .. why I stopped watching television a loooong time ago, and stopped consuming much "new music" since the 90's to me there's no improvement, just a rush to produce a soup of devolved goo... this is your brain on modern "culture"
reminds me of Brain Wilson's I just wasn't made for these times.. maybe they have passed me by.. but that's ok...

perfect is boring, maybe that's why people still like vinyl, the way they like tube gear, it introduces that fine granular imperfection that matches the human-ness and micro-mistakes of a real performance

My understanding that punk was a reaction to how "perfect" or painstakingly "produced" music was in the 70's , well the example that comes to mind.. Steely Dan.. eh? I like their songs, but they endlessly tried to nail a particular sound, demo-ing
multiples of guys just for 1 perfect guitar solo... etc. but even that is preferable to what's being foisted upon us now ! eww

At least listening to the releases here, made by guys and gals doing it mostly on their own, it doesn't bother me as much
that they don't have whole band or whatever, you know what they are doing is an original, and most likely authentic effort
and a "poser" ( as we have seen here over the last many months) is easily spotted !

thanks again to @Jazz-N-Stuff for posting Frippertonics here recently, a true gem of a lost time

 

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I just found an old demo I made back in 92 on a 4-track Tascam Cassette recorder.
Wow, it was such a wake up call. Really it sounds like nothing I can make with all
the fancy gear I have today. Just rotten in a really good way
Clean, digital sound is crap.

It is similar with old vs new movies. The dirt, noise and grains creates a kind of
comfortable distance to what I am watching.
Its more musical, more food for imagination.

It is difficult to put into words (plus english is not my native language), but
I feel we are really missing out on something in modern recording, and not least,
in the creative process of creating art.

 

OK. Nothing compares to some of the the best players jamming out to an incredible song far away from home in an exotic location, the intensity, give and take and all the little things such as minute timing changes and varying what was played in rehearsal compared to what the moment calls for, that make playing with other people such an awesome and powerful experience for the audience as well as for the players. The song's performance can never be repeated, but each time that it is performed can be magical in its imperfect uniqueness. Herr Durr brings up Steely Dan so I will use one of their songs as my example, one of my favorite from that great band. However, in this version other musicians are covering the song.

Keith Emerson:keyboards
Simon Phillips:drums
Jeff Baxter:guitar
Joe Walsh:guitar
John Entwistle:bass guitar
Rick Livingstone:vocal

Skunk Baxter is probably my favorite guitarist, he wails as usual here as well as when he played on the original. Enjoy the video.

 

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Maybe yours has suffered, but not mine. Especially where songwriting is concerned. My first instrument is drums, and I used to long to create my own original ideas in song, but I had the hardest time getting the other players in my bands to help me with my own arrangements. Then back in the early 80s I discovered MIDI. No longer did I have to beg drunken idiots to get serious about original ideas. They just wanted to get drunk or high and chase women. I am all for that, but at some time in one's life there has to be more to it. Well technology and online collaboration has uncorked this bottleneck in writing and recording, and I have probably written or produced several thousand finished songs. If it were not for technology coming to my aid this never would have happened. As far as mainstream music goes there are good and bad just as has always been true. Some I hear and I think what shit. Others just blow me away with artistry. It is probably true that technology does allow for a lot more of the shit, but even back when we recorded on analog tape we rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed until we were as close to perfection as possible. We wanted tight, well performed and well mixed even before technology of today. It could be argued that perfection was a goal even back then. I was practicing on my acoustic kit to a metronome to work on timing as I played well before the digital age. Music does not need to be sloppy to be human, and spiritual. It is just a matter of discipline. Tight rhythms are not really new to people who were serious even back then. Even analog I tried to keep it tight (as a drummer). My two cents worth.