i was checking out KVRforums and read about the new vengeance synth. I came upon this interesting bit in this thread https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=443409

Guy 1 : "the only hope i have would be that they finally drop the dongle requirement... i'd love to work with nexus and their effect plugins, but i will never ever waste a usb port just because of an archaic copy protection system"
Guy 2 : "I think it's actually a good thing!due to the fact that a major part of the electronic production scene downloads warezed software and uses it extensively, one who uses Vengeance products actually has a major advantage due to the fact that they're NOT crackable. just like Cubase 8. the last hacked version of Cubase is 5, and as I understood the only guy with the knowledge to hack the old code for the elicenser is no longer with us.this protection is all over the place in the code, but it's great that it doesn't hog the cpu, unlike iLok/pace.so Vengeance has 0 piracy cases."

what do you guys think about this ? i mean what kind of advantage would the producer who uses vengeance products have in comparison to one who doesnt ? i dont think there aren't fx or synths that can do exactly the same and even better than any vengeange product. If thats the case then whats going on for example with Nexus which has 2500sounds all and all and they are used by every producer you can find under a rock ?

Cubase8 is an advantage ? as far as i know you can do the same stuff with LogicPro,Ableton,FL,Protools,Reaper or am i missing something ?

It's a strange mindset some people have, for example a rich guy could have the same mindset like the Guy 2 : e.g i got all the money so i will get the protools,soundtoys,uad plugins,eventide and waves,and lots of Dave Smith synths and other modulars and i am going to wreck the poor bedroom producer that's still trying to make leads with his Sylenth1 in FLstudio dreaming he will one day become succesful.

 

Talent beats tools.

 

This threat is 1 year old and I guess there will no new synth. That's just stupiest idea to make new synth in this time.. and for what? Nexus makes a lot of EZ money. And they can't beat synths like serum or reaktor (spire, massive, harmor, etc..)

 

Well, as a iLok & eLicenser user, I can tell you this - and this applies to my thinking/workflow:
- the resale value of uncracked software stays quite high even after years away of the purchase date
- since I use one external hard drive and a memory stick connected to my laptop (so usb ports full), I really don't mind to have a small bus-powered USB hub to power all my thingies - so I don't mind the extra iLok & eLic keys
- talent beats tools
- anything vengeance/reFX offers can be made with other tools - it may take more time for the average producer.

Now, I recently purchased TDR's suite of plug-ins. Before purchasing I watched all the presentation videos (Dan Worrall) read the user manuals so at the end of my documentation I was well aware of what my purchase was able to do - generally speaking. I plan to purchase Nexus during the Christmas sale (and the new Vengeance Avenger in December) and I will listen/study each preset and I will read the user manual and probably spend the next month only experimenting with them. And IMHO this is the difference: when we purchase a product, we really seek to squeeze out as much as possible from that product therefore we learn that product really well, therefore that product become the best for us. When we pirate, we don't quite pay attention to all the details. If you have pirated Waves Mercury bundle installed, see if you know very well all those processors...

 

Vengeance Avenger is planned to be released in December this month: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6516823#p6516823

 

yes Avenger synth , as mentioned in latest September Computer music mag




jayxflash
- the resale value of uncracked software stays quite high even after years away of the purchase date

yep this mindset imo is correct , but the guy thinking that he has some special magic ingredient for the musicmaking recipe just because his stuff hasnt been cracked is beyond me

 

Avenger??! LOL
That's from book "Great names for a great synths" ? What this synths is capable to do and others synths can't? I guess just waste of time and money cuz there will no "free" version

 

Ignoring the 47 filter types (that's probably the filters from every iconic hardware synth in existence), 21 onboard FX, 8 arps, 6 step sequencers and 4 LFOs, the simple fact that this synth can go full screen on a 27" (or larger) display already makes me interested.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2016

so true what @jayxflash said. I've noticed myself that synths that I've purchased I've actually read the manual and learned to use them (serum is one good example), whereas the synths that I pirated I just blindly use now and then, maybe tweak the presets a bit etc... I don't know why this happens, I guess when we spend money we are actually more likely to spend time and effort to get something out of it.

 

From the developers:

Vengeance Producer Suite (VPS) Avenger facts:

Took me the whole morning to gather this list, maybe I even forgot something to mention... Wow, I knew it can do many many things, but this is quite a bit insane
Btw VPS Avenger is TAB based, that means a preset grows as you design it. Need more OSCs? Just add them, need another Filter or more ARPs? Just add it. Thats why its "up to 8 OSCs" for example. A preset can have just 1 or 4 or even 8.
We also did not limit the possibilities and freedom this offers: You could create 1000 OSCs playing on a single note. Does not make much practical sense, but if you want you could do that - we won't stop you



• up to 8 OSC Modules:

• each OSC with own V-Saw (Supersaw) (1-7 voices, 1-4 octs, pan spread)
• each OSC with its own vibrato LFO (which can modulate every V-Saw (Supersaw) voice seperately)
• each OSC with own Chorder (Note Stacker, Unison)
• each OSC with additional Sub OSC model
• each OSC can have its own synthesis model (see "GENERATORS" for details)

• OSC Transformation parameters:

• Xcite (bending the waveform in any direction)
• Formant (pulse with modulate any waveform)
• Bit/Crush (Rate/Bit reduce any waveform)
• Sync (easy sync mode with built in modulation env)
• Volume / Pan / Transpose / Finetune / Random&Alternate Pitch
• Noise Generator (level, noise color / noise rate reducer, stereo spread)
• FM & AM (if you wish Alias free mode), FM source: countless basic waveforms, noise or own custom drawable shapes. Rate is syncable to semitones/octaves/7ths etc)
• FFT editor for each OSC Module: Edit all spectral content in realtime, delete odd harmonics, boost octaves performs morphs or create custom filtersweeps
  • Randomizer
  • many FFT presets (organ overtone registers, crazy stuff etc...)
  • use our unique feature to randomly pulsate every band!

• up to 8 ARP Modules:

• up / down / random / poly modes
• editable note lengths and note transposes / velocities
• each arp has up to 4 sub patterns (A B C D), means you can make complex melodies of 4x 32notes
• hundreds of ARP presets

• up to 8 Step SQ Modules:

• contour, decay, gate time, editable step lengths and velocity
• perfectly synces Step SQ
• Can be quickly used as TranceGate effect
• does not click
• stereo mode (L/R)
• comes with many presets, even such as sidechain simulations, rhythmic gates etc...

• up to 8 Mod Envelope Modules:

• free configurable envelopes, add as many points as you like
• can also be in sync mode (quarter/triplet) to create moving and unique patterns
• countless trigger modes, such as firt/last notes, arpeggio, bassdrum from drum SQ etc
• can oneshot, loop, loop with release phase, ping pong etc...

• up to 8 Pitch Envelope Modules:

• BiPolar Pitch envelope where you can add as many additional points as you like
• sync and trigger modes like in the Mod Envelope
• portamento modes: normal, poly, legato and poly legato (yes) with custom depth and portamento pitch curve
• editable Pitchbend lag time

• up to 4 AMP Modules:

• OSCs can be routet in different AMP Modules:
• each AMP module has its own (analog) AHDSR envelope, but can be triggered from other env sources, such as MOD Envelope, too
• spike parameter, which REALLY spikes this time. You have been warned!
• volume / Pan / Keytrack
• stereo spread parameter

• up to 4 FILTER Modules + Master Filter Module:

• OSCs can be routet in different FILTER Modules
• each FILTER module has its own (analog) AHDSR envelope, but can be triggered from other env sources, such as MOD Envelope, too
• at the moment 47 Filtertypes, all basic filter types as well as analog filter, comb filter, talking/vowel filters, peakfilters, fm/crush, TB filter etc...
• resonance type selectable: additive or volume compensated
• each filter has Drive, Drive oversampled and a neat Comb filter

• up to 4 SHAPER Modules:

• the Shaper modules add distortion (per voice!) for each osc which is routet into it
• at the moment 17 unique distortion models
• two pre distortion EQ bands to shape the distortion tone
• stereo split mode
• can be pre or post FILTER or AMP modules

• up to 4 LFO Modules:

• 17 LFO Shapes to chose from +3 freely drawable shapes
• fade in / delay
• change offset (y axis) phase (x axis)
• countless trigger modes, such as firt/last notes, arpeggio, bassdrum from drum SQ etc
• of course syncable (normal, triplet, dotted), with extra long LFO times

• Drum Sequencer:

• dedicated drum sequencer for the drumkits with up to 16 bars
• triplet or quarter mode
• roll function for each note (x2, x3, x4 etc)
• each note has velocity, pan, pitch or gate time
• multiple selection tool: draw a box and select multiple notes, delete them, move them (with cursor arrows up/down/left/right) or st the velocity for all at once
• many special modes: flip, reverse, mirror, copy/fill blocks etc

• powerful routing system:

• add new modules and re-arrange the order the signal passes the modules for each OSC
• apply send FX
• graphic routing help system: rightclick on a module in the OSC routing diagram lets a cross-hair apear, to show you where this module is located in the GUI

• unique new Modmatrix system:

• "Drag and Drop" creation of ModMatrix entries. Just drag a source and drop it to any target you want on the GUI
• "grouped" mod matrix. Means you can change all modmatrix assigments with 1 click to a LFO assignment for example
• "+" (additive) or "%" (percentage) modes
• lag parameter. Smoothens the modulation, giving it inertia (for wha wha etc...)
• cool new mod sources, such as PORTAMENTO glide (for example open the filter with the glide movement)
• almost everything in VPS Avenger can be connected and modulated

• MACRO Controllers:

• All Factory presets are pre-routet with cool modulations on these Macro Controllers
• 3 Macro knobs
• 2 Macro buttons

• up to 6 free routable FX busses:

• 4 Insert FX Racks with 8 FX slots each
• Send FX Rack
• Master FX Rack
• like in your DAW you can route the FX into each other
• You can route past the Master FX bus. For example can everything be compressed and limited on the Master Bus, except the Bassdrum, which will be dry routet to the output
• at the moment 23 FX types: Delay, ArtsAcoustic Reverb, Trashverb, V-Verb, Room Sim, Impulse Response Reverb (with new IRs!), Gated Rev, Flanger, Chorus, Phaser, Multimod, Ministop (Tapestop!), Minichain (Sidechain), Bitcrusher,
• Distotion, Fuzzbox, Multiband Dist, Vinylizer, Waveshaper, Limiter, Compressor, Stereo Matrix, 4Band Equalizer, (+Multiband Comp, we will add that too, for release)
• each FX type comes with many many presets.

• Wavetable Envelope / Editor:

• specialized envelope for all wavetables
• can oneshot, pingpong, loop. Global or per voice
• "wobble" pattern generator. Unique new system, which lets you multiply, revese or flip the envelope with a pattern
• Fade in / outs, zoom, normalize, reverse for wavetables

• further features:

• Mixer Page: all busses and tracks at once for mixing and levelling
• keyzones / velzones: create complex key and velocity zones with fade ins/outs for each OSC / drums
• support for MIDI foot pedals, breath controller etc. For example: with one click assign your expression pedal to move the modwheel or the sustain pedal to control the release / any other parameter
• global shuffle factor: All shuffles (ARP, StepSQ, DrumSQ etc) are linked to each other
• parameter lock: lock your shuffle, volume or filter settings during preset change
• powerful UNDO function: whatever you did, it can be UNDOne with 1 click
• real monophonic mode: multiple notes wont kill your original now when released. You will notice this immediately when playing
• Tooltips explaining each parameter (can be turned off)
• customizable INIT preset
• navigate with cursor keys through the library
• export your current OSC shape with 1 click. Whenever you created new and cool waveforms you can add them into your library as a new OSC shape.

• Graphic / Librarian / Browser:

• easy to use preset selector, Favourites, own expansions (with icons)
• Tag Cloud for every preset... tag based seach system
• File Browser for importing own drums, multisamples, shapes or wavetables
• VPS Avenger will come with at least 500 high quality presets from all genres
• GUI open for skinning
• runs ultra smoothly in 60hz
• resizable skin in realtime - just resize it like a Windows window (if supported by host)
• everything is displayed in realtime, the waveform changes, the knob modulations etc. The presets come to life visually.

OSC GENERATORS:

• classic VA Synthesesis
regular synthesis with saw, square, sine, noise, tri etc...

• Oscillator Shapes:
You can import and convert ANY 1 cycle waveform sample into an Oscillator shape. Once the waveform is imported, you can transform it in every direction possible, 100% alias free.
there are thousands of hand selected shapes to chose from in VPS Avengers factory library. Many emulate the shapes of classic gear or complex digital shapes, dubstep screams, real instruments etc...

• Freeform:
You can freely draw your own OSC shapes. Use a pencil or draw lines, use smoothening parameters or normalize, fade in/outs as help to create every shape you can imagine.

• Wavetable Synthesis:
if you stack up to 128 Oscillator Shapes you will have a Wavetable. Wavetables can be morphed seamleassy and have their own powerful editor and morphing envelopes
VPS Avengers factory library will come with more than 500 top notch wavetables, ranging from all kind of synthesis tricks, vocals, harmonic/disharmonic spectrals, FM or real instrument morphs. Of yourse you can load and create your
own wavetables.

• Resample:
Basically this is a wavetable editor, this Synthesis mode lets you cycle through long wave files, to explore microscopic grains as an OSC source.

• Multisamples:
Each of VPS Avengers 8 Oscillators can also be a Multisample player. With our new "Sample Stacker" feature you can layer up to 4 multisamples in each OSC module with 1 click. VPS Avenger comes with a huge library of 500+ multisamples, ranging from
pianos & organs, synths, real instruments, voices etc. Furthermore there are 2 special Sample Sources: Attack Clicks and Organic Noises which are great layer additions.

• Drumkits:
This are real drumkits with their own drum edit page and a exclusive new Drum Sequencer. VPS Avenger comes with more than 128 Drumkits from all possible genres, while each drumkit holds 12 perfectly mixed and matches
drumsamples. Furthermore each drumkit has its own Drum Sequencer pattern. You can Change the Kits or the Pattern seperately, which gives you endless combinations. Of course you can create your own kits by filling it with normal drum samples.


Price: TBA, protection: TBA, release Date: TBA (we hope end of the year)

 

Price TBA...I will venture a guess at €329.

Every time!

 

less is more
and in the Reaktor you can patch 1000 filters, 1000 fx, 1000 arps, 1000 seqs, 1000 lfo
so it's the way to make cool sounds lol?
so why I should do step back and buy this avenger shit?
this going on my money, I just can't be a fool

 

Well, thats an impressive list, thanks.

Tbh though, its feature list seems to be almost endless but i have no wish to buy it.

I think we have reached the point where its just complexity for complexity's sake. The possibilities of the various parts combining is seemingly endless, far too many bits to worry about for my poor old tired brain to comprehend.

I just want to make some music.

I wiped my studio machine a couple of weeks ago and only reinstalled about 10% of the apps and vst's that were on there before.

For synths, i'm just using arcsyn, helm and chromaphone 2.

Life is so much better having less choice, it makes me think more about what i want and how to achieve it.
Also its made me learn more about how each synth functions and that makes it much easier to achieve the results i was after.

 

Wow, to me they are an eclectic set, like a bunch of French artists in a café the early 1950's in animated discussion about the nature of creativity while sipping absinthe, Galoise hanging magically from their lips. I for one would love to hear something from what you create with those three, sometime.

 

Agree.

Sometimes the only way. Think cinematic soundscape.

I have no idea. I am not you.

Have you seen the price of UVI Falcon?

 

Spoken like a puss. I buy my stuff. 99% of it. The other stuff I will buy when I can afford it (ahem... Fabfilter). All of it has been cracked. The only thing I bought that (at the time) hadn't been cracked yet was Soundtoys 5 and I'd gotten a tip that it was to be released soon and bought it anyway. It's not about exclusivity, and if Guy2 thinks that way he doesn't know shit because I can do with any cracked synth whatever it is that he thinks Vengeance Avenger will help him with. I refuse to buy products that require a dongle. I don't agree with anyone forcing me to buy a $40-50 piece of useless plastic to protect their interests at my expense.

I say this all the time but I will reiterate. It's about appreciating and drawing inspiration from the things you use to make music. Repeatable inspiration, not the one-shot novelty of using a new cracked plugin. I am grateful that these sophisticated tools are available to me. I am grateful that I can afford them, which was very much not the case for a long time. And I feel a almost sense of awe knowing that these things that are so mindblowingly sophisticated belong to me. And as @jayxflash put it way too perfectly for me to elaborate on, I get to know them because I have invested in them, and by extension invested in myself. Gratitude and appreciation breed inspiration. That's the end game for buying your tools

 

I use Nexus2 in literally EVERYTHING I make & I love it dearly. If you look at my threads promoting my music, about 87-99% of all the keyboard sounds are done with Nexus2 with a little bit of processing/effects by third party plugs like UAD stuff/Logic's built in fx or within Nexus2 itself. Some folks are surprised when they find out I use Nexus2 a lot. I do know how to program/engineer with a synth (I have a certificate in Audio Technology as of Spring 2013) but for fucks sake, sometimes I just want to get to the fun part which is PRODUCING the music itself. I try not to get into the making my own sounds part. Nexus2 helps a lot for that, because most of the sounds are usable right out of the box. I will buy this Avenger synth the moment it comes out. Honestly, I'm just shrieked like a little girl when I saw this thread. I'm super excited now. I may be achieving an orgasm. Gotta go jack off for an hour now. See ya!
But seriously, I'm gonna grab this when it comes out.

 

I will wait to HEAR it.
I don't want to count how many synths where supposed to be a "revolution" and ended sounding just "nice".
There are so much choices now, a synth need to be impressive...especially a dongled expansive one.
Because it is not going to be 100 bucks ;)

 

I can not personally offer anything of value to those that write, compose, create, produce, mix, master...etc. electronic music as it is an area I'm not at all well versed in so I won't try, I would add a big plus one to all your points nevertheless. Back in the good old days of KVR we had a good topic about what us dongled up user's did with them (especially so if travelling and wanting/needing to take one's tools with them). Most of us from all sorts of backgrounds had done basically the same thing:

A decent powered USB hub with applicable dongles attached.
A Tupaware or similar box to encase them all in with a hole cut out for the port PSU and a sole USB out extension.
A USB cable to reach from the USB out extension to go into any available port, any time, any machine.
Foam and stuff to pad out the inside of the port and dongle holder to further aid in making it nearly impossible to damage
seal it up good but not so much that it's a mission to get back inside if/when required
This all came up after I'd noticed a lot or rather a slew of companies offering over priced dongle protectors and just thought I'd post a thread on superior, cheaper DIY solutions as they we're of course over priced but nice to look at hehe
I know exactly the fine gentleman whom posted about all the positives of eLicenser, He's a real veteran and good bloke. One of the member's that makes the market place their such a overall decent system. I just wish that it didn't turn to mostly shit or I'd still be a proud regular
<Dean Aka Nekro>

I can not stress the importance of the above. Herbert, Fabien and Vlad are top notch and everything they've built is just so well thought out with no fluff/junk added. I know Dan also and I can't say I know of a better plug-in demonstration creator than Dan, I'm quite surprised he's not working for any of the audio publications but he is a very busy engineer both in the studio and also live, It's rare to find such genuinely good people nowadays that haven't got ridiculous ego's and other such "qualities" that end up many a talented person's demise. You all know the type that I'm talking about and stuff gets toxic pretty fast, Absolutely not the case with the mentioned gent' and their processors, They welcome the most rigorous testing possible and get on any issues quicker than Cockos' updates REAPER!

We need more like them and the way to promote such is by voting with your wallet. Yeah it's cool to get a load of stuff for your money but ultimately if it isn't exploited to it's fullest then it's just taking up disk space and wasting time sitting around in one's plug-ins' menu. Which is counter productive bottom line, Along with a lot of overlap which further wastes space and time. I've been pretty frugal mostly, So I've rarely bought a license for anything audio software that I've wanted to sell/be rid of. I know it is so easy to pounce on all the deals that are often to be had, Group buys are especially a giant lure for plug-in whores as the more on board, The more stuff each gets. I've not been a warez/crack addict but I really understand the appeal, My weakness is guitar and/or bass guitar pedals from cheap and nasty to quite frankly way OTT mark ups, Simple one knob buffers/line drivers/boosts up to basically modular setups along with the big all-in-one DSP jobs with everything in between. I've tried to stop but it makes things worse as I end up with aload to catch up with/at least try whenever possible.

It's far more optimal to master a "restrictive" set of carefully chosen tools than it is going what is basically lucky dip (and even then the stand out's become rather apparent sooner or later). The only category I have probably too many options in, Is the F00kShitUp department but since there is differing madness to the collection I've put together over the years along with them being deployed 99% of the time as spot effects, Far from workhorses the variety actually works more for me personally along with the fun of fiddling to find what I'm after (If not come up with a batch of options some close to initial sound that was in mind to so vastly different, I wouldn't of thought up off of the top of my head). I'd admit that for all the pedals and amp options I have available, I mostly have go to stuff that I'll reach for instantly, Only will switch things up if something isn't working for the task at hand. I've got, Well I'm refusing to say how many Ibanez Tube Screamer & Maxon OD green stompboxes, Amongst a few that are part of the family yet not finished in that iconic green but each one does sound, behave differently to others either subtly to vastly depending on amp front-end, guitar pickup load...etc. Which one is the best one? It depends and that is part of the trap. Still I know a good few that are unlucky enough to be obsessed with fuzz pedals, Oh their collections of fuzz boxes alone makes my collection look like a part time beginner (I pack a few Boss FZ-2 which is my go to fuzz, A handful of EHX muffs, A few versions of the Z.Vex Fuzz Factory amongst some others, Oh how I've been ripped for my FZ-2 hyper fuzz love which is since it's release. My reply is "If it's good enough for classic, Dopethrone-era Electric Wizard then it's certainly good enough for me" ;) )

Is there any area of audio gear both hardware and software that does not have it's fanatics?

All the best jayxflash, The OP and everyone else as always, It's always good to find a thread which makes one self-reflect, That's important
IMveryhumbleHO. If it's working for you then it is good, That simple

Dean

 

Not necessarily. There do exist one-off purchases which you seldom use later. And also piraters who know their software very well.