I have started down this road of music production falling into the hole because of my inability to use Audition (jbridge didn't work for the plugins I wanted to use...) to do reasonable voiceovers for some short youtube videos I wanted to make for my mods for games and now short films using Unity 5's awesome movie making ability.

So I went down a road of Cubase then to Pro Tools, to Sylenth, Kontakt, Massive, Absynth, FM 8, Reaktor and Omnisphere (Dex is fun). Forget about all the DAW plugins from Waves to T-Racks and back again.

All I want to do really is make some simple scores and background music for my videos. Given my unfortunate need to learn about film making directed me to the "ears lead the senses..." and now realize, the video is only HALF the work. Music producers have gotten the shaft...a big shaft of non recognition.

...but I also want to make melodic and harmonic stuff that I hear more on shows like "Below Deck - Mediterranean" and pretty much every other freakin cable show I watch/hear...but at the same time not just play a single note melody over a pounding kick and bass line...now that seems kinda like cheating...I want atmospheres...I want evolving almost non repeating soundscapes as well.

Now, I thought the atmospheres being made were from software like Absynth, but even FM8 and Massive has a lot of Absynth's abilities, THEN I learned about Omnisphere, about 7 years too late (though I've only been doing this about a month). So now I'm playing with Omnisphere 2 hoping I can update it to at least 2.2.0g...then I realized WTF is really going on, IDK!

I'm not here to make any EDM per se. I'm not producing music so guys can wake up in someone else's clothes wondering who they humped (or y their butt hurts) the night before at a rave...with the women going on cleansing fasts cause they now feel dirty. Idc about that. But, I do like a lot of EDM's use of the music production software, and want to use those elements for a different purpose. Even as a retard, using the software now and my keyboard is more emotional than when I play guitar, and guitar is 75% the emotional release of good sex to me! (ok, great sex) So I understand the forum website's name.

So I'm asking direction:
WTF do I use for specific purposes:

• Melodic leads that don't sound just like saw tooth waves every freakin time...I like some of the FM synthesis bells mixed with flute kinds of sounds or as Kadence courses make a mess of it. "Things struck" with "things blown"...how that guy got that job, holy cow. I like sounds with relatively short attacks and long releases (that looks weird after I typed it...) but I want sounds more like natural instruments than Barbarella movies...just my preference.
• Melodic atmospheres without the sounds like I'm floating in outer space in a sci fi film...every freakin time...especially with their use of evolving detunes...omfg that sucks.

I have very brief needs for inharmonic sounds for specific short times in my productions, but that seems to be covered 100,000 times with all the presets I've got...

What are the "best" solutions with synths I can use that have software implementations? Idc about complexity, I can just learn any of the synths really. It just takes me spitting blood learning the tutorials for hours, then practice...

I'm tired of auditioning presets and want to make the freakin sounds, but given I've just had an epiphany and realize Idk what Idk, I'm asking for your help! Unfortunately, I'm confronted with first, wtf to learn to make those sounds. Therefore this request.


Thank you guys for any helpful advice.

 

My advice would be to focus on one program and work on learning it inside and out.

In your case I would suggest Kontakt 5.

Although any synth with a decent number of oscillators, envelopes and a functional mod matrix would be just as effective.

 

Ok. Ty. Right now, I just use it as my good piano sound...and my good silly sounding vocal choir. If there's more to it than just libraries, duh to me. I haven't even tried the movie scoring percussion library yet, and haven't found the need for their billion gigabyte version of a symphony. I know there's a scripting language, but I'll see what Kontakt can do after it loads in a library...I'll try to find tuts that don't go over for the thousandth time how to make a quickload file and gets under the hood.

 

It's incredibly useful but really only when you have the full version and not just the player.

 

All the software I have is fully functional. I don't have Komplete, if that's what you mean. The music producer is the weak link at the moment. Now I have to investigate if my Kontakt 5 is not the actual vsti... Nope my Kontakt is not the player, it doesn't have "Player" on top, just Kontakt...and I can open any libraries on my hdd.

 

Last edited: May 4, 2016

If you're using Kontakt for FM synthesis or better yet, any kind of synthetic sounds popular in electronic music, you're barking up the wrong tree. They have a few decent sampled synth libraries, that are pretty warm sounding and can achieve a few goals. But you're better off going in the direction of Sylenth, Spire, Massive, Serum,Zebra, for those particular sounds. Also the vsti's I mention allow for endless amounts of sound modification and design.

 

Yep, Kontakt is more for real instruments, like pianos or guitars etc..

 

Get something like symphobia(kontakt libray),it may suit your needs since you are a beginner.

 

I am always amused by film dudes not giving a shit about sound until they realize, "oh shit, this is actually a really complex craft" :D

Hit me up via PM if you have a few Bucks and want that shit done righ!

 

Yeah i was like that about the studio dudes and mixing, until i've tried it myself.

 

Kontakt is a sample based instrument but it sounded to me like that was the kind of sound you were going for. More natural as opposed to electronic.
Absynth could be a happy medium.

In this day and age though, with the tools we have, "If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything"



It's your density, bro.

 

@5teezo I hear you, but this is half Art and Music Therapy and half I really would like to see what Machinima can do other than make news events the public thinks is real, but is completely faked.

@solo83 I have Sylenth, Massive and FM8 with a billion presets...
The FM synthesis seems to produce the least grating sounds to me but, other than I could play the same melody auditioning the presets until I die, I noticed a uniformity in the sounds that I did audition. That's either the billion dollar corporate takeover (forgot the guy that dropped the billion $ buying up everything he could, it started 2013) of the EDM industry driving a specific type of sound, or everyone converging to the same product? How many BS sound do you really need? I like the different ARP sounds, and that's closer to what I'm thinking about using as a sonic base to my soundscapes or scores for that matter. The Sylenth LD sounds I more often dislike than like. I find saw waves dissonant. With Massive the same, but I find more sounds I like, but same convergence to uniformity...there's something NOT being done by these machines that should be imo, but I can't put my finger on it.

@Von_Steyr Ty, I'll look for Symphobia...and hey, just cause today idk a damn thing, doesn't mean tomorrow I'll be the same. Every now and then there are ppl that learn over time. I had a end of june deadline for the trailer, but I could just use something like a story board and use Absynth stuff I already like even though, Idt anyone uses Absynth anymore...for a long time...[Edit] nuts Symphobia 3 is over 30gb! My terabyte drives are starting to treat me like an ex wife...tyvm it looks promising.

@lisa_power Well, I first wanted to make sounds closer to real instruments, because I play "real" instruments. Now, that I can make electronic music, I no longer consider virtual instruments not "real." Unfortunately, I only learned today, my unassuming Kontakt is a freakin DAW in a plugin's clothing. It's not intuitive or it likes secrecy... Now it's time to torture myself again with Kontakt tutorials...all those Groove, Ask, ADSR, Lynda...not really useful sometimes...I thought I went thru those already, never noticed the DAW in it...wtf. Unless I got distracted and didn't watch them...

@ Pinkman Well at least I want to thank you for making me see the DAW in the Kontakt. Holy crap. I'll play with samples of my nieces to scare the crap out of them...I did age them to teens and put them in glamour dress and freak'd out my bro...ok, I'll be nice.

The real question isn't what to do now that I'm a moron in specialty. I'm asking what I should use, once I'm not. I'm asking, given your guys experience, what should I be using now? I really don't want to start torturing myself with Omnisphere if I don't have to, but it looks like I do. I got scared enough with Absynth and Reaktor. Absynth is falling to me and I can make stuff I actually like (but is Absynth even used anymore!?), Reaktor will fall if I need to go that low level to program a sound, but I suspect I do not.

Keep well and I wish you guys the best.

 

Last edited: May 4, 2016

I have pro tools but haven't used it enough to be as comfortable with it as cubase. So far I can't get Xpand2 to work with cubase. I will persist with pro tools to get over my unease and check it out. I think I was having midi routing issues and was so excited to play with my new keyboard midi cables I said f'it and just fired up Cubase.

I thought it was funny Pro Tools has a recommended turning on devices sequence like a moon launch. Not a good first impression to me. The instrument should be transparent, not burdensome.

 

Despite the obvious negative implications of that kind of technology, I can see it being put to good use.
Like re-dubbing classic Bruce Lee flicks.

 

Jeff,i believe you can learn fast.The reason i suggested symphobia is because you can get fast results,its quick and a time saver.
Working with normal orchestral libraries,percussion,drums,synths,fx etc can make even a sane man go crazy.
You have to realize that scoring or even sound design are very time consuming occupations.
In a pro environment,we are talking the big league,you have dozens and dozens of people working on one project,its rarely a one man work,you have to be a bit crazy in the head likes some of us here,but hey no pain no gain and no game either

 

Very true , but it depends. It's crazy to assume that a one-man-diy-army can achieve results like the mainstream audience is used to.
But I believe it's possible for a film maker to create his own sound track and for a musician to make his music video, as long as they they don't try to compete with the "big league", but use their limitations in a creative way instead.

If too many choices make you suffer, just use the most basic tool you're comfortable with, really learn to use it and stick with it.
In Jeff's case that would be Cubase. Just learn all the synths included and how to tweak it. If you don't even have the time for that just hire a pro you can communicate with, you'll be surprised how many great but starving musicians are out there that will help you to get the job done. The fact that you play instruments yourself may help you finding the right person.

 

@timer Is Cubase not looked down upon by Pro Tools and Logic Pro ppl? Idk, I just got Cubase first and started to remaster hits from the 1980s and to my surprise I liked mine better. That ended somewhere in the 1990s, around then, I started not to be able to improve them, only change the flavor to personal taste which in the end, I still liked the originals.

@Von_Steyr

Np, I looked more carefully and symphobia looks really promising. I'm gonna produce stuff that is on the 3-5 min time scale, so I'm hoping just as soon as protests of fast food workers start in the spring, so will fast food joints automate; I may leverage that same computer technology to my benefit, even if there'll be no one left with money to watch or hear it.
http://newsexaminer.net/food/mcdonalds-to-open-restaurant-run-by-robots/

I use the systems approach of iteratively better approximation and I've gotten almost auto generated soundscapes (ok I do move 3 fingers sometimes) from Absynth 3 mins long (I got bored...well really overwhelmed...it was kinda pretty). Iteratively better approximation is really the same thing painters have used forever, so it's just a smart way to do things.

Remember, at first I'm going for cable show quality work which so far sounds like a really stripped down EDM track: a kick & snare and bass line with a LD over it...ok and the occasional FX in some soundscape base sometimes. That was it. I never even noticed the soundtrack in video before on cable shows and I'm surprised at how simple goes a long way. You guys have to watch Below Deck - Mediterranean Ep 1 just to hear how the music changes over the episode. The guy/girl gets bored himself and just goes down a LD bank from sawtooth LDs to FM based leads then back. Kinda funny in retrospect. It's scary as you learn a craft, not only does things demystify, but your appreciation increases because you can see and hear more.

As I've gotten better at understanding film making and then rewatched movies, it's like duh, see the key lighting it's red AGAIN? See frame? Notice how JJ Abrams uses so much flashing it's become unwatchable? Maybe JJ's flashing is his visual attempt at the music industry's loudness fetish. Now, I'm gonna have to re-rewatch movies for the scoring. I've already noticed that there are standard sounds for things, like computers or space or the tear jerker, which I find truly unimaginative and manipulative as if they want to anchor a sound to a feeling across movies...dun dun dun...but that's NLP and other than getting women undressed before they notice, I haven't found much use for it.

 

@Pinkman That's the type of soundscapes I want but, without the detuning automation like at 1:05. Everyone seems to have a hardon for that but, I find it anathema to my very existence. I also like layering of stuff I have yet to have named but it creates a present and fuller sound (like at 2:19) that fades in and out over 10s of secs. Overall that's really close to the idea. I wish I learned how to record my Absynth stuff before I played things I liked. I had a slow melody playing over stuff like that with some complex sync'd delay happening. Now, I have to do it again, and I hope the laptop has enough ram to hold it, or I have to recreate everything on my workstation and heat my room to tropical. The more I think about it the more I can say I can't remember the exact way the soundscape I really liked started, evolved and ended but it definitely begins with that layering of sound.

Ok, now where do I go to find a vocabulary for soundscape design? It's not how the oscillators are set up, or the filters or the modulators or how they are automated with envelopes. I don't think such a vocabulary exists...does it? I learned from MDs and Physicists that if you give something a name, even if you have no idea what it is, you can make other ppl believe you know what ur doing...like Dark Matter, or Berger's Disease. Either way, it looks like I can't remember it if I can't name it, so is there a reference? I downloaded: Oxford_Handbook_of_Music_and_Virtuality, but it looks as useful as the Kadence tutorials. Oh, boy physically based modeling, yeah, now make music or stfu. The pdf references Zapa and Vocaloids, neither do I like, though throw a japanese girl in a school uniform...

Dude, nowadays, they can make his corpse dance in digital video. If I dared learn NUKE (so far After Effects is good enough for me) I'd just face map him on myself and make him look fat. The age of actors is over, the only thing holding them on, is the politician's use to sway the public with them.

Be careful what you think is real. If you see it on tv, it probably isn't. That includes the news.

 

Last edited: May 5, 2016