Hi jvne.. That`s what I have been doing.. ;) I just use MRecorder plugin to create an audio file called "Test" that is constantly living in iTunes.. Its like i don`t even lesson to my DAW anymore.. Which is kind of ridiculous i know but its the only way to know what the song is going to sound after render it.. I record a few bars.. Lesson in itunes.. Make changes.. record again.. Lesson i itunes.. make changes.. This is exhausting and just kills my confidence because i`m always second guessing every decision..

 

Are you sure that all your tracks are making it into the master? Do you have any Midi or Audio tracks that are playing back in your DAW but not actually being recorded and ultimately not being exported? Any effects applied to these tracks would not make it to the final mix. e.g reverb on a snare..?
Same applies for any sends/returns you may be using.
You could try to solo and record each individual track so you have a separate audio file for each instrument, drum, whatever and then play them all back together and record the output in a separate channel.

 

Question : is the sound from your daw goes to a different audio output than your media player ?
Daw audio output would be "External Audio Card" and VLC audio output would be "computer audio output"
If yes, then your computer audio must have a parameter to select something like "speaker,headphone,cinema,etc..."
or audio improment like "Bass Boost,Virtual surround,Room correction,EQ"
Everything must be turned off.

 

Hi, MORTIX. I haven't read all posts but did you try to import some commercial tracks into your DAW and check them if they sound the same in your DAW and outside of it? Maybe it's not just your mixes, but other songs sound completely different in and out of your DAW. I have the same problem and for a long time I was thinking that it were my mixes, but when I checked good commercial tracks that I knew very well, they had the same issue. They sound overall better inside my DAW but when I listen throught the media player or AIMP or whatever, mixes have more harshness and boomines. I've turned off all the effects inside players, but the sound hasn't changed, but maybe its some other settings.
Just import some famous track that you like in your DAW and check if it sounds INSIDE the DAW the same as it sounds in iTunes or whatever you use.

 

Yes everything is being properly routed.. I`ve checked.. and this still happens when i`not even using sends or buses.. Just plain audio tracks straight into the master.. And all of my DAW/Players go thru the same output (Apogee Duet) into the monitors.. I have to talk to a friend who as an older macbook to see if this happens in his system.. running out of things to try.. Believe me.. I even installed Windows in Bootcamp and this still happen on Cubase 5/Reaper/Ableton after export to Foobar and WMP.. So no luck so far.. I just think this is how my hardware is working because none of you guys are experiencing this..

 

Hi Ivan Mayboroda. Yes i tried and other comercial tracks sound slightly better inside the DAW..

 

record the master to a track. mute all others then export that recorded track. if it still fucked up. its your sample rate. make sure the daw and maestro have the same sample rate 44100. if its still fucked disconnect the duet. try exporting again. if its still fucked get another computer. lol and try updating maestro!!!

 

I spoke of the reasons that call for doing that in my previous reply to him. You can read that also. I didn't need to repeat it all in my reply you responded to. And I haven't even met 10 engineers who record their full mixes ITB. This is all in reference to replicating the sound and nuances as best as possible given the resources available. Read my first reply to the OP. Also, The 0 bar buffer does not improve the initial response that occurs when multiple plugins are triggered by the audio signals at the same time. I made reference to it in my initial reply. As a result the opening bars of 100's of ITB rendered mixes are of noticeably lower quality and you can hear the quality transition to it's better proportion down the line. The method of ITB rendering I spoke to him about is in order to capture the beginning at a midway processing point however. To test with your ears.. render a project with a fair amount of processing plugins used, and with all tracks in the mix enabled to play right at the start. That will make it more obvious to use for comparison if you don't have a meticulous ear. Then use the method I explained to him which is pretty self explanatory why it's often better to capture the sound of the mix after it's looped back at least once.

 

Last edited: Apr 27, 2016

Tanks guys for the feedback.. But i honestly dont know.. I tried a lot of combinations but the outcome seems to stay the same.. I tought machines was supposed to make our life easier and not create more problems.. I supposed i have to go test other people setups so i can compare to mine.. I just trust my ears and they tell me there is a substantial diference after i render.. Maybe is hardware related.. IDK.. if i find new information about this i will share it.. meanwhile if someone have more suggestions i will try them.. Tanks ;)

 

Have you tried doing an export in real time? In Cubase this is an export option but I remember some friends had Protools and realtime exports were compulsory so I imagine it must make a difference.

Apart from that I can only image your DAW playback and exorted song playback are coming through two different channels, one with EQ or something different applied, but I think you tried that above. Or you're playing exported tracks through a media player which has EQ or some kind of 'enhancement' applied such as a stereo widener or bass enhancer.

 

Yes i tried the the realtime export.. In Logic/Cubase and Reaper.. No diference from the offline export.. My players have all the enhancements off.. I guess the DAW`s just show me a superior playback than what is played by the music players.. Like the playback is more warm/lively and forgiving and the render is more cold/rigid and the errors just became apparent straight away.. The problem is not a big drastic diference but enough to keep me coming to the session to make changes.. witch is frustrating..

 

Will definitely try this option, as i'm experiencing similar issue on logic x

 

Hi, sounds like a settings related problem. Dithering off or on with a different setting. The best you can do is to post your setting or print screen and let the forum help you out ... Not so easy now to help you!

 

oh dbmusik, again, please if it sounded like I was saying you were wrong, that is not what I meant at all, so no offense intended! I just have never heard/read/seen of that, and will absolutely try it out!

 

A last few suggestions;

As a long shot -- could some of your plugins have a 'render quality' option which is not set as high as playback, or not as high as it could be?

I know you said the DAW and media player are routed to the same outs, but my audio device has an internal mixer, so my DAW can be set to route through channels 1&2 but media player could be routed through 3&4 which could have EQ or something different.

Lastly, in my setup Cubase uses ASIO drivers for the audio but WMP uses a Windows Wave driver or something different. Could it be that the media player driver just isn't as good as the driver used in your DAW?

 

post a vid of playback and rendered copy???

 

What an interesting discussion this is. Can I give this one a wild stab in the dark?

Don't shoot me if Im being dumb here, but could your problem be related to clipping issues? In my humble experience tracks can clip pre-fader. Turning the fader down or putting on limiters will then subsequently create the illusion of a non-clipping track. Some DAW's render clipped tracks brilliantly, making you think you are making an awesome mix, until you export the mastertrack. Then suddenly everything over +0db (even prefader) gets calculated down to the +0db limit, messing up you mix, even making it sound metallic and nasty. Just a theory of course.

 

Had a similar problem a while ago. Working with Cubase I noticed that my exported mixdown wav-File had a lot less punch and sounded lacklustre. Until I discovered that I recorded and played back the cubase project through my Yamaha interface. Listening to the wav-file was done in the windows media player, however, as it was the default player. Then it occurred to me to check the settings of the player and I found that playback was through my built-in M-Audio audiophile, which I had completely forgotten after installing the Yamaha and was still connected on open channels to my mixer. So routing the playback to my yamaha interface resulted in exactly the desired sound. Stupid of me, but shit happens and forgetting something so trivial often causes severe headaches.

 

It may happen that in a DAW a change in sound happens as you bounce down if you were working with different samplerates and stuff (Reaper is notorious in this regard).

But since you tried different DAWs you can rule this out. So the problems seems to me you're playing through different audio systems / drivers. Does the bounced-down file sound OK when you open it in a new project in the same daw or does it sound weird then too?

Anyway, the (Reaper) problem I was talking about first is when you're mixing on 96.000hz (as example) and then bouncing down to 44.100hz. Reaper starts pumping all the audio through the plugins at 44.100hz, and _tries_ to tell the plugins that the samplerate has changed. Some plugins handle this nice, others don't listen to VST spec and don't expect the samplerate to change at any given moment and start producing a different sound. So my advise is to always mixdown / bounce in the same samplerate as you have been working in all the time. If you need to convert the samplerate of your mixdown do it _after_ the mixdown.

But I have no clue if this is even related to your problem S:.

Another (to be honest, old skool by now) problem is the different between 'running realtime' and 'running as fast as possible'. When you mixdown / bounce, the plugins are running as fast as they can, so you can mixdown a 3 minute track in 30 seconds for example. Some plugins don't work nice in this mode and produce different sound, they only work in realtime. Most DAWs have an option _somewhere_ to _not_ use plugins in 'offline' mode but always run them in realtime mode. This probably means your bounce might actually take longer (since it's now running realtime a bounce from a 3 minute song will take 3 minutes) but might solve sound differences.

In my experience there are no modern plugins anymore that suffer from this problem though. On the flipside, bouncing realtime is business as usual in the bigger studios because if you use outboard gear in the mix-process you have to run realtime... you can't make an outboard analog compressor run faster than realtime :P.

 

1. Try to turn OFF "PDC" (Plugin Delay Compensation), name of this option may vary from DAW to DAW. Some time ago I had similar issues. Logically, when playing back in DAW in realtime some of used plugins may introduce delays, which are perhaps make your track sound better for the reasons of mcroshifts in timing etc. To be sure, check your projects opened in DAWs on other setups, even on internal soundcards. So you may get sure that something is happening within your DAW and is not caused by hardware malfunction.
2. Check if your cables are well, if everything is grounded, if cables don't mat with power cables...
3. Sorry for my English and wish you solve this!