Not yet sure if this is a joke or not but either way.. it's hilarious.

http://www.submediant.com/2015/11/02/study-so-called-atonal-music-just-been-in-a-minor-all-along/

 

I think/hope it's a joke... It has no logical sense

 

It's a joke, the whole website is.

 

makes perfect sense, a-tonal music in a minor, well duh, it's called A-tonal for a reason and not btonal or etonal

 

Was just interesting for me!
(Still don't understand anything from atonality by listening)

Compositions by Arnold Schönberg (click to listen)
http://www.schoenberg.at/index.php/en/schoenberg-2/kompositionen


In 1908 a profound change in music was initiated when Arnold Schoenberg began composing his "George Lieder" Op. 15. In this work he deliberately relinquished the traditional system of tonality, which had been the basis of musical syntax for the previous two hundred and fifty years. Subsequently, Schoenberg, Anton Webern, Alban Berg, and a number of other composers created the large repertory known as atonal music.








To the uninitiated listener, atonal music can sound like chaotic, random noise. However, once you realize the amount of knowledge, skill, and technical expertise required to compose it or perform it, your tune may change, so to speak.

Actually, very little music is completely tonal in nature, and most atonal music arrives at and departs from tonality from time to time during its course. Atonality is a condition of music in which the constructs of the music do not live within the confines of a particular key signature or scale (other than the chromatic scale). No particular modes are employed.

In tonal music, one tone functions as a sort of center of gravity, and the other tones in the chromatic scale are “attracted” to it in varying degrees of strength. Not so in atonal music. There is no gravity. You are allowed to use any of the twelve tones in the chromatic scale in any way you feel like. But how do you wrap a sense of form around that amount of freedom?







In 1908, pianist Arnold Schoenberg became the first known composer to write a purely atonal composition. “Du lehnest wider eine Silberweide” (“You lean against a silver-willow”) was the 13th song in his musical collection entitled Das Buch der Hängenden Gärten (The Book of the Hanging Gardens), op. 15. It was during this time that he first defined a 12-tone system of composition to replace tonality as an organizational tool. Atonality is one of the most important movements in 20th century music.

In this 12-tone system, Schoenberg believed that no tone should be more important than another in a musical composition. All 12 tones were to be introduced in an order chosen by the composer. Throughout the composition, these same tones must recur in the same order in notes or chords. No tone can recur until all eleven other tones in the series (or tone row) have recurred.

There were a few accepted modifications to this rule. For example, you could move all the tones up or down by a certain interval, retaining the interval relationships of the original series. You could even go in reverse (retrograde). This was also the beginning of serial music, or serialism, a type of musical composition based on a particular sequence of pitches, rhythms, dynamics, or any other element of music that is repeated over and over again throughout the composition. You don’t have to use Schoenberg’s 12-tone system to compose atonal music, and you don’t have to write serial music either, but it may be useful to have some framework other than a key center to help you out.






Some composers can hear atonal melodies in their heads just as easily as they can hear tonal ones. This kind of musical imagination is somewhat rare, but if you have it, great! Don’t be afraid to get it down somehow. Write it, record it, seal it in a jar. If you think it sounds good and you can communicate it so that others can eventually hear it, it may have a place in the world — no matter how weird it may seem to your relatives.




I found 3 books about Atonal. They're like solving complicated equations with methods I had not seen till now.




I am asking below questions because there are not good resources talking about the compositional side of industrial musics. I don't have knowledge about Atonal yet just wanted to know what I am listening in the industrial stations.

Please listen to below station (at least 10 tracks)
http://somafm.com/player/#/now-playing/doomed

Can we infer that the industrial genres have tight relationships with Atonal?

Are industrial genres more chaotic or Atonal or neither of them?

Are using random notes in music illegal?

I just recorded below (music, track, I don't know what to call it) from above station? What is it? What's its difference from noise musics?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ker7kdjqs83t47o/Doom.aac

Do industrial music artists know complicated concepts or they are just acting randomly in their productions?

Is the main concern of dark industrial/ambient producers, the "pitch" or they are using anythings that sound good to their ear, consisting any note, interval and chord?

Do they think that thinking about pitches are causing limits and for getting rid of that use anything they want?

Most of my posts till now have been around the "pitch" and by listening to the mentioned genres, I am thinking that it's better to balance my thoughts about the "pitch".

Above genres use so simple pitches but the result is amazing. I know that every genre has its own characteristics. For example in some genres, melody is not the main concern but in some of them is the most important constituent.

I think every thing starts from loops. Before a term like "loop" to be created, a musician was a person who can think pitchly and write compositions on the staff and play a real instrument. But in most electronic musics those factors are not important so much and other abilities are playing the main roles. In todays' electronic musics there is no limit in any thing and the artist can do anything with sounds.

I know my below sentence is even more dissonant than Atonal:
I think today, musics have been immigrated back from the pitch world to the HZ world and in that you can do any thing. Of course previously lots of efforts have been done to convert HZ to pitches. Is it not better to accept the nature as it is and not create constraints on anything? But investing more on DAWs is highly suggested.

I don't want to imply randomness but awareness. When I am listening to industrial or other electronic musics except the dance ones, I am not able to find any specific and deterministic paradigm that big composers follow.

Do all of my above galimatias relate to illiterateness or they're just the reality?

 

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What's your idea about coining Apitch (Anti pitch) term in music and ruining every thing?

I will give 50% its honor to kouros and 50% to duskwings. But please help me to theorize it first.

 

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You have some misunderstanding regarding atonal music. The point of atonal music, especially the twelve-tone system, is to avoid sounding pleasant to the ear! The idea behind it is that, the pitch elements of a piece of music, and thus consonance and dissonance, are preventing our brain from getting in touch of the other aspect of the music, such as dynamics. Therefore if we limit the pitch elements to only the sensation of different intervals by planning them with serialization rather than function, we can avoid an obvious tonal center, and each of the 12 pitches will have the same weight to the musical piece.

You are overrating the producers of electronic music, most of them are producing tonal music with rarely any unconventional approaches and results with the pitch element. The link you posted above contains mostly tonal music with more emphasis on noise effects than pitch element, but still tonal. You may call them some kind of minimalism, or drone with very little melodic movement, but definitely not atonal. In fact, drone is especially tonal since lol you are emphasizing ONE NOTE!

Schoenberg was a master of tonal, functional music before he got bored of it and begin experimenting with other aspect of music.

 

You're so good. I love fast and short guideposts. Thanks a lot!

 

"To the uninitiated listener, atonal music can sound like chaotic, random noise. However, once you realize the amount of knowledge, skill, and technical expertise required to compose it or perform it, your tune may change, so to speak."

It's all shite!

"Schoenberg was a master of tonal, functional music before he got bored of it and begin experimenting with other aspect of music."

He didn't get bored, he realized he could never compete with the likes of Beethoven or Bach.

kouros, have you every heard this joke "To solo in jazz, just play a minor pentatonic scale up a half step."

 

Along with his twelve-tone works, 1930 marks Schoenberg's return to tonality, with numbers 4 and 6 of the Six Pieces for Male Chorus Op.35, the other pieces being dodecaphonic (Auner 1999, 85).
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Along with twelve-tone music, Schoenberg also returned to tonality with works during his last period, like the Suite for Strings in G major (1935), the Chamber Symphony No. 2 in E♭ minor, Op. 38 (begun in 1906, completed in 1939), the Variations on a Recitative in D minor, Op. 40 (1941). During this period his notable students included John Cage and Lou Harrison.
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You just said drone:
http://somafm.com/dronezone/

 

@jaganshi What do you say about this?

 

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Not to be picky, but Cretaceous Chasm really doesn't fit the traditional definition of 12 tone row. With the repeating note sections, he is implying keys. A no no in 12 tone. He is using the notes of a GMaj7#5 in one section (D#GF#B) implying modal harmony.

 

I investigated all of his 6 note groups.

Non of his selected 6 note groups is from below well-known scales' chart. What does that mean?

If we play off- scale in every section of the music, what would happen from the tonal or Atonal perspectives?

 

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"They are sectioned off in fragments" from the video. Notice they are not all 6 note groupings. Now where does the chord GMaj7#5 (his spelling (D#GF#B) come from? Its a Augmented Major Seventh Chord and comes from modes of harmonic and melodic minor. Thanks, please play again.

 

Yes, GMaj7#5 belongs to both E Melodic Minor and E Harmonic Minor.
But I am not talking about the chords based on his 4 note groupings. I am just saying that any of his selected 6 note groups (I am not talking about 4 note groups) that he plays melodies based on them is not from my mentioned scales.

 

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Hello my friend foster911. The problem is he is not just using 6 note groups. When I listened to the song, I hear implied harmonic movement. You could look at it as a quick modulation through not closely related key centers. It is great that you have analyzed the music (more people should do that) but it gets down to what it sounds like. It is very dissonant compared to common practice period music, but like I said before, I heard sections of movement which would not be in a 12 tone row piece. Just my opinion.

PS Great chart. I seem to always forget about our friend the Enigmatic scale.

 

There are many types of music other than modal and tonal. Some examples include:

chromatic music, which uses all twelve of the standard Western pitch classes instead of the diatonic pitch collection, and which may or may not have a tonal center;

serial music, sometimes called "dodecaphonic," which is chromatic music that intentionally avoids a tonal center, often by avoiding repetition of a pitch class until all twelve pitch classes have been used;

bitonal or polytonal music, which uses multiple diatonic pitch collections and multiple tonal centers simultaneously;

microtonal music, which uses pitches with frequencies between those of the standard twelve Western pitch classes;

whole-tone music, which uses a six-note scale comprised entirely of whole steps;

non-Western music, which uses a pitch collection outside the twelve Western pitches (this is not a good classification, as there are many cultures with many different kinds of music that are very different from one another in pitch collection).

music that does not use pitches at all; for example, an unpitched percussion work would clearly not be modal or tonal.

 

Please read below passage. It's revealing some ambiguities at least for me:
........................................................
Tonality, Modality, and Atonality
http://www.solomonsmusic.net/tonality.htm

At the end:
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Atonality is an apparent lack of key. This excludes modality and tonality. However, atonality, meaning a lack of intelligible key, is actually a calculated confusion of tonicity; i.e., most listeners will not be able to discern a tonic. Objectively, there can be no atonality, as Schoenberg himself maintained. Composers of atonal music try to avoid all reminders of tonal music, evading major and minor chords (tertian chords in general), scales, keys, dominant functions, regular rhythms, repetition, etc. This means that atonality is psychoacoustical; i.e., it depends, at least partly, upon individual sensibilities and subjectivity.


What's your idea?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2016