everybody dreams about some analogue tool soon or later
when I was saving money, and it took me 4 years, I was so excited and inspired that I made myself a knowledge
about circuits, switches, step resistors, caps and so. I collected a large schematics collection. I got closer to older technicians, coming from the 70s.
ok in the 4 years my dream list changed completely.
I ve been fooled by advertisements and marketing, thanx God BEFORE buying stuff.
In any market level there are good sounding and good... looking tools, at the same price more or less.
it may sound retoric, not new at all to many. I think it s worthy to be said.
I ve been lucky to know an old school guy that opened my eyes, so maybe I can transmit this to a newbie, as I was,
talking analogue gear years ago.

 

For quality-summing you also need a proper digital-analog converter and a analog-digital-converter. The first & most important thing is high-end monitors + proper studio treatment. Outboard, summing stuff etc. later. Once you get out of the box its a never ending story..because you want to feed your summing mixer also with a (few) nice hardware compressor/s, eq/s etc.etc.
IMO it depends what you do - if you mix only or if you record and produce music the "oldschool way", jamming with real instruments & want that real "dirt". When console and preamp emulation plugins getting better and truly convincing this endless discussion will be over maybe.

btw. Andrew Scheps went "100%" ITB for mixing (the converter is outboard^^).

 

Last edited: Feb 18, 2016

I made a faux summing box ITB with Imagline's Minihost Modular, Soundflower and Airwindows Console3. Not summing with circuitry but you can add any plugin insert you want. This concept works outside of UR daw and is post fader. Its a faux summing box built to your needs. You build it add your plugins and setup your routing.



Mini Host DL:
http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?f=1919&t=123031

Soundflower DL:
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/14067/soundflower

Console3 DL:
http://www.airwindows.com/console3/

 

Here are some links to cheap and free summing options.
keep in mind is the summed mix is only as good as the mic pre's on your sound card (converter).

DIY METHOD:
http://www.diyrecordingequipment.com/4203/how-to-build-a-diy-passive-summing-box/

Unit Audio has some cheap (and portable options)
http://unitaudio.com/home-march-madness.html

Vintage maker can do custom builds for you
http://vintagemaker.net/

PASSIVE (un amplified) options:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unit-Audio-Milli-Unit-8x2-Analog-Passive-Summing-Mixer-/300986263831

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Summing-Mixer-LittleOne-8x2-DB25-in-TRS-out-NEW-/271301359060

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Discrete-Su...stereo-to-2-mono-DB25-input-NEW-/271301360681

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LittleOne-8-Summing-Mixer-8-patch-cables-/161136885724

One more:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sm-Pro-Audi...mputer_Recording_Software&hash=item58a6ce87ae

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825462-REG/SM_Pro_Audio_SMP_PM8_1_PM8_Passive_8_Channel.html

or the modded:
https://blacklionaudio.com/product/pm8mkii/

 

Really cheap options, but nowhere can be found the comparable results...
I doubt the cheap ones can delivered a better result than a good analog chain.
I tested all Airwindows products a time ago... deleted all no because of bad GUI, just for overpriced products.

 

despite the neggy vibes above you can use any console emu in my ITB summing concept. You dont even have to use a console emulation u could use anything you want.

 

Neggy vibes?
You are here to judge opinions or post yours.
If you are here to post yours I assume that you want some respect for your opinions too?
Grow up Lady!
No one is talking about your 3 broken links or your inability to post your experience in real world right?
Remember the title of the post?
Let's talk about summing mixers. Do you use one? What does it do to your sound?

Music is not about gear, most important here is the exchange of experience
1 not about something that you can easily find with google
2 not about bad software or harder options (all the daws can put any emulation in any channels
3 not about people that get offended by opinions
4 not about people that do not stay in topic
5 not about people that do not respect others

Neggy vibes are all about you, the topic was cool until you shit out.

 

Its true its all about swag. U can get every plugin under the sun. If you aint go the sauce you lost..

 

How about running a stereo mix, or some mono tracks, trought a class A amplifier (Marantz) or a god old (Nakamachi) tape recorder and back to daw again before mastering or after ... would that work?

Is it worth the time?

 

I think you can get creative with it however u want. Ive ran signals through old gear with no processing to get some headroom. #noRules

 

Moderators PLEASE?!

 

eboe, yes if they have Balanced in and outs like some Revox 2-4 tracks recorder

if you mean to go from converters (B) to RCA (UB) you d need B to UB transformers to go out of the box, and UB to B Transformers to record the tape recorder or whatever back into the computer.

and still you won t have the same quality of staying all into the box.

I ve tried guys, with Urei mixers, not so bad, all balanced, VCA controlled ICs
it wasn t worthy, into the box was better

for me the only advantage is with balanced A class line amps
again, you don t need 60 channels, just 2

just my opinion

 

I have a bit of insta-respect for that guy. I have a similar electronics business and, from that perspective, two things stand out to me. 1) He's subtly making fun of people who purchase hype. "All circuit components chosen by ear for maximum mojo.". hahaha! That's common, meaningless bullshit in the industry, but the last word is a wink. 2) His build quality appears to be top-notch. $1999 isn't cheap, but is reasonable for his design and build quality. He has a sizable investment in R&D, the UL certification, etc. and his cost per unit appears to be high on top of that. In other words, his pricing looks honest.

I don't have a use for that product, but I hope he does well in his venture.

 

From April 2016 Computer Music (Agree)

Q summer of love Andrew Pakuts

What’s the deal with analogue summing? Is it something worth looking into?

A Worth looking into? There’s nothing that’s not worth

looking into, in my book, so yes. My feeling, however, is that adding analogue summing to an otherwise digital setup isn’t going to be the make-or-break difference. I love analogue gear, but realistically, there’s better ways to spend the money than getting a summing system. Certainly don’t take a leap of faith on that one – test it out if you can, or don’t do it. OP

Fancy a summing box like the Dangerous 2-Bus+? Read Owen’s sage advice first!

 

I think a summing mixer can help when working with many tracks, it may give a wider and deeper stereo image, the details of the summed tracks won t get lost, and yes you can get some analog slam BUT:

A class amps (real ones)
transformers
XLR balanced connections
all passive circuits

opamps, ICs, active circuits, other kind of connections ... let go, keep on staying into the box, my opinion

I have all those kind of pres, from NTP M100 opamps (original and good ones), to Urei ICs (yes some IC can be good, look at Urei or BFE Filtek eq filters) to fake A class (Focusrite Compounder) to real A class (Telefunken, Chandler, RFZ)
Only the Chandler is worthy for me. I have 2 Urei mixers, purchased before the minimixer, now used for monitoring.
I ve spent 1600€ for the 2 used Urei, I wasn t satisfied.
I suggest to save the money, a real summing mixer can t cost 2000€
but with 2250€ you can buy a Chandler TG2, 2 A class pre, some history in your studio and real A class sound.

and yes real gear costs a lot of money, it s hand wired, custom transformers, passive technology and it s always been like that
What can I do? It s just like that

 

Agree, chandler is the best!

 

Summin

Mixing to a console or summing box will:
1. Force you to mix with your ears.
2. Possibly add harmonics, crosstalk, saturation and noise to your mix.

Weather this improves your mix is up to you.

 

Chandler is nice indeed..the mini mixer. Or Fat Bustard/Thermionic. Or Neve 5059..or..or..

 

This thread turned into a mess, eh? I have decided that i am going to:

record more sounds using analog processing into the box. i find it easier creatively to have committed to a sound.

Then get a cheap used console (behringer, mackie, soundcraft, etc) 16 channel mixer. and use it as a summing device and not bother with EQ or other processing on individual channels POST PC. I will leave all faders as unity gain. I assume i will learn at least 60% of what analog summing can do for me this way. and still keep my work flow of creating in the moment.

I will record my 2 mix from the console back into abelton for my final mixes.

I want to do this because it seems no matter how much I spend on a CPU/PC i am still unhappy with latency. I have my RME fireface set to 48 samples and the latency is still way to much for me to monitor from abelton and play in time. i fucking hate that SO MUCH

I am wondering if i should try a usb 2 based interface instead. would help with this round trip latency?

I can swap my RME fireface 8ch for 2 presonus audiobox 8chx2=16? how do the converters compare? I WILL NOT BE USING THE MIC PRES on either. just for D/A

 

If you use fireface USB ports the latency will be lower. How many ms of latency you have? RME are know bu low latency.
Out to in to out double the latency but you can hook the output direct to monitors or swapt to aux channels.
About the overeconversion in final mixes I have my doubts so, you should test all analog channel input only vs summing in the post.
In my experience I prefer only one conversion and maybe a bus or master conversion because its ease to degrade the signal. To be good you will need a hi sample rate, so more CPU.
Do not forget about the patchabay, can do wonders with the things you already have.