Hard to believe that the time has passed so quickly but I've been attempting to make music for 8 years now.
Whilst my output could never be described as prolific (I went two years at one point without finishing a single track), I've put significant effort in to improving my knowledge of production and music theory.

Back in 2007, running Ableton Live 6 on a PC that couldn't load most of the Waves plug-ins without maxing out on CPU, having no real understanding of what a compressor does, no real understanding of the concept of tension and release, or even musical scales, I managed to put the following together as my "first track".

https://www.reverbnation.com/djshaggy/song/1194710-groovy

(yes, mixing levels all wrong, overuse of FX, not enough variation on the drums, sampling from an Ace Of Base song of all things!)

Having had another 8 years pass, I would now consider myself to be an "expert" of Ableton Live, compotent on sound creation using synths and FX, have a decent grasp of the music theory of scales, chords, progressions etc and developed a reasonable workflow in terms of putting together a basic arrangement.

Here's the problem though.

I find my earlier tracks far more interesting to listen to than any of my recent output. (example below)



So does more knowledge just mean that your music just becomes more predicable and bland?

Discuss.

 

No.

I don't know what you mean by "a decent grasp" but anyways, don't blame the theory.

Theory is just.. theory, an observation of something (music in this case). It all depends on how you understand and integrate it.

Knowing about chords, scales and progressions won't do anything by itself. Anyone can read those in a book.

 

Not at all. I have 0 knowledge of music (theorically speaking) and I have more than 250 songs composed by myself. Even Vangelis doesn't know music theory (or something close enough, can't recall now) and look at all the things he did and can do.
In fact I think it's quite the opposite, by logic. The more knowledge the more things you could do (and much more improved), but I think on top of this there's this thing, wouldn't know how to call it, that if you don't own this creativity (or whatever), no matter how much you know, it will be usless.

 

I think originality comes from listening experience. you have to have heard a lot of songs and be familiar with many many different styles and I mean core styles like Jazz, Dub, Rock, Rap, etc as well as eclectic styles IDM, Witch House, Vaporwave, etc and then combine what you learn from all those examples to do sonic exploration that you can understand yourself. I guess what Im getting at is, the more music youve processed with your mind, the more knowledge you have of how sound can paint a picture and in turn create more original pictures.

 

I feel like we share a lot of similarities with our music production, and I understand what you're saying. I started out around the same time as you, and I used to make short song ideas with no idea what I was doing. I used presets. I followed no rules nor did I adhere to any genre. I didn't tune kicks or EQ or compress. I didn't have anything but stock plugins. I didn't know anything about complex rhythms, I just stamped in notes that sounded good. I made music, as lame as it was with the poor mixing and overkill FX, it was cool, interesting music.

Then somewhere along the line I wanted to get a bit more serious, and took an interest in synthesis and arrangement and theory. I read the manuals for loads of plugins. I watched videos, read books. Now when I try to make music, it always comes out sounding by the book instead of interesting. When you know the "rules" or techniques, you feel obligated to use them and your music ends up sounding like it's on rails.

Believe me, I know the frustration of working for weeks on a track and then listening to something I threw together in one night years ago that sounds like a glorious magnum opus in comparison.

I absolutely don't think more knowledge is bad, but I do think we have to overcome our reliance on that knowledge. The problem isn't knowing things, the problem is using that to our advantage and not being chained down by it.

If you're a perfectionist like I am, it can be hard to go with the flow and let music come out naturally. The more you know, the more you have to think about and that gets in the way of making a groovy track. It's not that we're not creative.. it's that we're not letting ourselves be. That is why for some of us, it feels like our music goes downhill.

The best music is the stuff that feels good, not the music that "sounds" good. Try to channel the old you and remember what it was like when music was fun and not a science.

BTW, I'll listen to your music later when I have more time.

 

It depends. It's more of a personality issue imho. Some stop being playfully, trying to be serious.
Artists do not.

 

1- Which path would you choose? 1 or 2? and why?
2- What are the consequences of them?

 

Oh how I KNOW the feeling! I've been trying to do this shit for some 20+ years, going from style to style, learning shit tons, but not letting my creativity flow. Eventually real life got in the way, and I have less and less time to devote to making music. I know inside and out how to do this and that on a DAW, I've used just about every DAW out there. I know how to make sounds, I get spontaneous bouts with creativity, but when I get a chance to tap that, I just get unenthused. I used to have every piece of software available, now I've stripped myself to the bare minimum. I make 8 bar loops on the regular, and my production has gotten to were they sound immaculate, I even master them in my useless bedroom studio. I try to help those that are coming up, but I've nothing really to show that I've done, as a 8 bar loop is not a full track. But I know my shit, frequently argue my shit, and go home trying to work on my shit. But I continue, as music making, production, engineering, all of it, its not for anyone else but me. I love this shit. Its fun, challenging, and one day i might just be the father of a new sound, genre, or style. Or not.

 

if anything i think you need to be shot for sampling ace of base

 

Energy flows where attention goes.

Focus on DAWs, on listening to music and/or thoughts of theory as "rules to make music right" and that's exactly what you'll get. If you don't focus on the ways to accomplish your big picture objective, you just won't get it. State it clearly in your mind and make a plan on how to pursue it.

 

Last edited: Nov 19, 2015

#1 track: boring
#2 track: boring

This has anything to do with knowledge... maybe you have nothing to say?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015

Without good studying the events, this happens to us. Everything is out there (As, my love kouros said in one of his posts). Before punting your fingers in action, just learn them with whatever method you'd like.

Getting the goods and materials (like DAWs and Plugins) easily causes us not to know their value. Then we think like this:
I have a DAW so I have the world under my foot. let's amaze the people. We do not even know what the amazing mean.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015

maybe not less originality... but sometimes a persons experience and involvement in a certain field ruins their enjoyment, motivation and excitement in that area that they once were curious about...

It's one of those, I've been their, done that, seen it all and no longer excited things....

especially when sometimes u get into the engineering side of things, it can decrease ur desire to finish tracks off because u worry too much about the technical fidelity of your music and start comparing it to music with really top quality engineering... idk thats how I felt long time ago.

But even from that you eventually develop and gain even more experience and you pull yourself out from that and realise that it's just meant to be fun and enjoyable rather than a negative thing where you're always criticising and feeling bad about what you do.

After all it's just music...dont take your tracks too seriously and just make some good shit and have fun... that's where I'm at now...

 

Hey. Just made an account cause I found your question interesting and wanted to share my view.

First and foremost I believe that the creative process takes more than one route, it's a personal thing, so don't let some of the other comments discourage you.

Knowledge could harm your creativity if it makes you second guess your gut feeling. It's a tool. Music theory can save you time and you should use it to make the best out of your ideas, not to shun them for being too simplistic or whatever. And most importantly you should never spend more time looking at your DAW or books than playing your instrument.

If you're looking for inspiration consider this. It was mentioned here before, and I think it was spot on, you should move out of your comfort zone. If you're strictly an electronic musician try learning an acoustic instrument. If you're used on making music in front of a monitor, go out. Take a walk. Walk for like 2 hours and make a deal with yourself that you'll have composed a track, all in your head, before heading back home. I do that actually. It sounds like I have issues but it works (and btw it helps if you have issues :p). Also I find it extremely helpful when I'm under tight deadlines. In other words, don't make it easy, make it hard. These, are not hippie magic tricks, I found out that they're in fact really practical. At least for me.

Lastly you should seriously consider if it's music that you wanna make, or be a producer for other peoples music. In my book a producer is an artist as well, and if you'd rather equalize than hum tunes then maybe your passion lies elsewhere!

Cheers!

 

^^^ this is competely true, especially about the fact that 'the creative process takes more than one route'. It's complex and unique to everyones process and style :D

 

Exactly my point.
From memory, track 1 was a cut and paste arrangement where I just threw Beat Repeat and Autofilter on to the master channel with wild abandonment.
It's production is poor, it's soundscape is limited but despite all that, I personally find it more interesting to listen to than track 2 which is trying to follow "best practice".

 

I guess that the issue... finishing a track off takes a lot of effort and doesn't feel like fun. Because it's hard, I personally tend to look for short cuts to get to the end result. These short cuts are probably the main factor which influences the track to conform to a certain structure hence tracks start to sound similar and unexciting.

 

Man, your timeline is almost identical to mine using the same DAW, except for a few differences in Genre and production approach.

I have discovered from my own experience in dealing with production, ONLY me could make and craft my lane. Nobody on this forum or elsewhere, famous or not can tell you how to go about it. You can grab many bits of info, advice, thoughts and blend them together to come up with your own, but there can never be that ONE ultimate way anybody can give you to make you go "That's it!".
With that said, make your own lane, keep driving and never turn your head back. With effort, passion, more knowledge (yes, more and more) and determination, you'll succeed in having a clear idea of what your sound to be; What YOU want to be.

Now, having your lane doesn't mean you have to stay unorganized or have no idea what you want your tacks to actually be. I've listened to all your tracks on Reverb Nation, not being negative but I couldn't come to understand your path because they are all random and miss a signature flow. So, I'd say "more knowledge" is not your issue, I'd say that randomness is, IMO!
You need to have a concrete idea of where you want each track to end up (even when you have no clue yet) but they have to fit a mold; Do you produce these tracks to stand on their own or having an artist sing or rhyme over them at some point? Which industry or areas these tracks suppose to fit in? mainstream, underground, film, commercial, trailer, etc...? All that has to be determined mainly by you as you are producing/finish them.

Now you may ask what most of this has to do with building tracks. Well, If you don't know what and where you want your tracks to end up as far as sounds and fitting specific Genre or Sub-Genre then you'll forever be producing random stuff, blending random stuff... Pretty much, the never ending experimentation; I mean, unless that's what you want to do. However with never ending experimentation it'll be hard to have a clear lane though.

My two cents...

Good luck on your journey!

 

Last edited: Nov 19, 2015

Also a good idea that helped me is to do a wide variety of things.

Try some new shit that takes a break from what you usually do.

Like recently, I worked on a rap track and I also ended up making a dub track that was completely different from something I would probably prefer to make. But I had tonnes of fun doing both because the results came out pretty decent and it was a great learning process and experiment with different mixing styles and techniques.

It should be fun, that's the first step...if it isn't then there really is no point of doing it

 

I think the answer is not needing a long philosophical scholar approach.To simplify why the first track I believe is more pleasing to you it contains funk rhythms that have a more human feel.In your deep study of production the use of quantization has taken the feel out of your flow and made it too on the grid.Play around off the grid some and try to have things interact with a more human feel and I'm sure you will find the spark again.