I every places in my posts I have been just talking about the degrees not sizes. I hate sizes. Because it doubles your calculations. If I wanted to uses sizes why should I create a Degree chart for that. I admit that all of the confusions here are my fault. So I do extremely apologize.

 

Chromatically up to the thirteenth, they are. Could and should be named accordingly to the musical context (tonality) but obviously for the purpose there isn't any.

 

In fact u shouldn t have created it since it s wrong and useless,u don t learn anything with that, even if u learn that crap by heart,if then i question about intervals u won t be able to answer

 

If by sizes you mean the amount of semitones, you got it wrong right at the start. Again, this is all worthless for your study of music. At best you could use it to check YOUR OWN calculations when training or something, NOT to use them as a guide.

 

i don t agree with that,if he wants to learn intervals he has to learn them all, including the enharmonic equivalent,and it s not even a thing to learn, it s something that he s supposed to do with reason

 

That's what "Could and should.." meant. Other than that there's nothing wrong with that table except the last column and the lack of purpose of that table to the person who posted it.

 

Correct spelling is absolutely needed when writing on a staff because there's a certain convention to follow but ultimately, music is all in the relation between pitches (frequencies). That's the reason why people who "think everything in C" or in numbers are also successful when applying theoretical concepts and analysis. The plus side to this is that with numbers you think faster and avoid all the key signature related drama.

If you aren't going to touch staff, convention and writing rules are obsolete because you're out of that framework. If you want to put those tables to work on a staff... well Foster911, you're about to quit music.

 

They are 2 major representations for the notes. One is using Staff notation, The other one that all DAWs use is piano roll. I usually work with piano roll so I wanted a quick way that just takes 1 second of faster for finding the notes of a any chord and any scale of any key for beginners. The only reason was just that. As quick as possible.

The well known chords structure in degree is so simple. The only problematic point that remains is relating the degrees to the notes that takes time of course. If you'd be able to relate e.g interval of notes E4 and Bb4 with the degree of b5 and others like my first chart without thinking (This also happens in the multiplication table), your composition process would be accelerated.

 

I got that part that's why some arguments arised in the meantime BUT at the same time I gave you valuable pointers in why you shouldn't be doing it that way (with tables and all that).

The solution to this is not what you think it is. As I've said earlier, focus on intervals in a numeric fashion, the "size" as you called it. If you do this you'll begin to have a mental map of where everything is (numbers & letters) and linking it to the respective sounds. Please, just don't count things by "size" in semitones.

You could start by training your eyes and ears to write octaves and fifths on the piano roll. That will be 1000Xs more useful than writing those repetitive tables.

BTW, the piano roll is chromatic.. which means that everything will always be at the same distance when you move the whole up or down. That is a much more useful way to think than by note names. Those are only useful to guide you through tonality and chords.

 

Last edited: Oct 19, 2015

Another thing is that your compositions reveal you haven't studied yet the meaning of chord function within a tonal center and how they are built. Theory wise, that should be your first stop right now (but please, no tables!!).

 

By themselves, C to F and E to A are exactly the same thing on a piano roll, the same interval (a perfect fourth).

It's only when you have a context (background) that they gain other meaning beyond that, for instance:

Key of C major, C and F are the root and the perfect fourth, E and A are the major third and the major sixth.

Am chord, C is the minor third, F would be an added fourth (11th, an extension to the basic triad), E is the major third and A the root.


If you want an exercise on this, send me the answer to what these notes would be "within/against" the key of A minor and also the Fmaj triad (chord).


I am trying to write things in a simple way to avoid further confusion, if you don't get something, just ask.

 

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Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2018

Well, again, the traditional way of learning interval is knowing your major scales, this is how theory is taught, and that is how I learnt theory originally.

The problem with your system is, as others stated, that you are ignoring the possibility of enharmonics. C# =\= Db in tuning other than equal temperament. Also when you get to more advanced harmonics with all those substitutions, you'll get quite confused if you are already mixing up sharps with flats. As an example, in a classical music scenario, if you want to use the german 6th moving to G chord, you have to spell it as Ab - C - Eb- F#, however if you are using it as a modulating chord into the scale of perhaps Db you will have to spell it as Ab - C- Eb -Gb so it's a dominant of Db.

In jazz, there are two common places where enharmonics matter, for example A7#9, where you spell the #9 as B#, rather than C natural, which implies Am. Then there's the difference between #5 and b6, which tells you whether the natural 5 is a chord note or a tension note.

If you do not understand the above examples, it is better to stick with the basics of knowing your major scales and apply variations. Ie, a minor scale is applying b3 b6 b7 to the major scale of the same tonic, while lydian dominant is #4 and b7 of the major scale. Unless you are confident with the basics inside out, it is rare to have the understanding to experiment with advanced harmony/melodic ideas.

 

Please listen to
duskwings hes the only one here that knows what hes talking about. Everything is context based. Gb anf F# are not the same note nor they have the same sound. Yes they are in the same place on the keyboard( that is a limitation of the instrument itself) but they have a different frequencies in real life. One is a bit higher while the other is lower and they tend to resolve to different places. Once put into context, that is once a tonal center is established your ear will takes care the rest.

 

they are the same if u use equal temperament,but the point is that he can t arbitrarily call them a way or another because he s too lazy to use sharps

 

Last edited: Oct 19, 2015

I am not lazy. I just did that for better view.

Or whatever accidental combinations you'd like.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2016

no better view there, if u insist on using those charts u don t go anywhere,u said it tok u 3 or 4 days to find that method,didn t u? well, u stole 3 or 4 days to the proper study of intervals,and in four days with the correct study method u d have been able to write and name intervals.But u prefer wasting time trying to find loopholes,ok,maybe we who ve been writing 6 pages of replies here telling u r doing it wrong, are all retarded.I d clap my hands if my 47 chromosomes allowed me to connect my limbs correctly

 

Foster, you failed the exercise, mainly because you don't pay attention. Your answers are wrong.

To the enharmonic nazis, how often do you have sharp vs flat troubles in a piano roll?

This is becoming a dead horse topic.

 

I don t care about the piano roll,fuck the paino roll, ive never used it in my life and it pisses me off that daws prefer to include the piano roll rather than a decent score editor.This said,the point is only one,intervals MUST be named correctly,i don t give a bloody fuck if enharmonic intervals sound the same,it s irrilevant.If they have two names, there must be a reason, dont u think? Go to any music school and tell them that that an augmented fourth and a diminished fifth are t he same thing, then use a stop watch to count how long they take to kick u out.
And reagrding the story of numbers,i haven t got it yet,how using seven numbers to study intervals is different than usign seven letters,or like they do in italy,giving each note a name do re mi fa sol la si?
if he finds so difficult learning the principles to identify intervals ( yes because he doesn t have to memorize them,with practice he s supposed to recognize them looking at them or knowing how to create one from a note) then he better go to learn t to be a plumber.
Music is like any other language, it has rules and has a grammar,although it s true that u learn to speak before going to school to learn grammar, are u sure that a 4 year old speaks the language properly?because if it so then all the school structure is useless

 

Last edited: Oct 19, 2015

So.... which of you guys is going to stand by my side when programming auto-tune or adding an extravagant guitar solo to a song?