I'm sorry I started reading this warm and fuzzy thread. Seem like a lot of mean spirited haters round the place . . .

 

Yeah man thanks for your post.
I'm not a hater @ all, like someone could believe.
If you have read my first opening post i stated that KVR wasn't like that years ago.
Okay I admit it, possibly i expect a Forum to be open minded, tolerant & flexible,
but now I see it's not always the case. Most forums simply repeat the patterns of
society with its hard lines and rigid morals. I thought medieval mentalities where a
thing of the past....nope!

 

Please read what he write.

"Someone who is in situation where financial trouble threatens his existance should have better things to do than make music."

There is no word of warez in there. He flat out say if you dont have money you should not make music.

Today yes there is much good freeware. Freeware is just as good or almost as good right? Will the dev start to complain that now instead of warez the freeware is major problem?

 

I'm not stupid man, I know that the official Nazi regime has been knocked down – Heartily thanks to the Soviet Union!
Btw: Your way of inquiring and denouncing has A LOT of Gestapo methods.....
....but don't take me wrong, you can choose to think & act like you want, but don't expect equality.

 

It's called 'sarcasm'. I didn't introduced the deeply moving '3rd world' fantasy in the first place (ups, there, I did it again, sarcasm, cannot help it).

Do you really believe Lerkjurk and the likes gives a shit about poor musicians the world won't be able to listen to because they have no access to the common 'Ubersynths'?

They're just exploiting that "pennyless musician" image again and again to justify the existance and use of warez, and that is highly pathetic. Not to mention the Nazi calling stuff. There's no reasoning with stupidity, that one is really true.

But again I don't care that much as I know that a big part of the audio warez scene is like a communist central commitee meeting where every dissenter from the prevailing opinion (dominated by the "try-before-buy" mantra") will be shot and burned. ;)

 

"To achieve its “everyday low prices”, Walmart employees in California were found to be receiving over $85m in public assistance annually to supplement their paltry wages. In the UK only one in seven people working at supermarkets earned a living wage in 2012.

And these are people with real jobs."

 

Job or no job - fact is that there's a shitload of free hq stuff out there to make music. Of course there are no freeware PCs, no freeware Internet provider etc.

What do people expect? That VST developers give their stuff away for free if one has no money?

The only reason U-he is targeted here because people are mad that Urs' stuff is not cracked - not because he said sth about the "3rd world" or whatever.

 

Tut mir leid, I missed it, went right over my head.

 

Jesus, not only are many internet forums totalitarian, the whole world is!!!

We live under a dictatorship disguised as a democracy if you ask me

 

So Dad, why are you contradicting yourself? Either they are ( run in a totalitarian manner ) or they are not,
and thanks for telling us audiosex is not a country... numbnuts !!!

 

really....? first I ever heard of u-he being targeted here, this site seems to actually like u-he even to the point of people
posting the un-cracked demos to be tried out

too much hyperbole, ridiculous

not that i give a rat's a55 either way about u-he myself.. i just don't use it...

 

You see it from your angle. I see it from other sides!
It's the structures of POWER & control that are keeping many, many musicians & artists penniless.
The few selected ones bathe in wealth & abundance while the rest get just the crumbs.
The System is totally based on exploitation, elitism, exclusion & emargination.
= It has evidently totalitarian attributes which can be quite associated to criminal methods.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

 

Come on, be honest. You cant say that people with financial problems should not be making music. Note i do not say these people should use warez, i simply say make music like that dev say.

You say there is no free computers but obviously you do not live in parts of the world where organisations give computers to people. Free laptops, search net and inform yourself. Free audio programs too because they understand the importance of music to people without the financial ability to buy what you seem to be lucky to afford.

You cant say that people only use warez because they are lazy (like uhe say). If user is too lazy to buy a vst you think this person is going to make any music?

You mention freeware but you totally avoid my previous post about freeware because it does not fit your arguement.

I do not attack U-He because of warez or not warez, i simply point out that his statement about who should make music is stupid to me.

Why i am not talking of some other uncrack stuff? Because those dev do not say stupid shit about financial problems and to use time do to something else instead of make music.

I am done with this thread. Peace and love to everyone here, good luck with your music journey.

 

Seems you haven't read many threads here. Of course there are a lot of decent members here, but also those cry babies which do not get there toys because no one is willing/able to crack them. The fact the Urs is very open about his opinion about piracy seems to drive some people mad. Of course he is provocative, and why not?

This is a whole new story, good luck discussing that.

 

@hfeuhfz7342hf724... This is the 1st image on google that came up when I searched uhe provacative. Is this what you mean?

 

Well, I usually lurk most known audio forums whenever I need information on something, as I am probably too much of a noob to actually help someone. I decided to chime in on here as I found lots of funny contradictions. These are of course my own opinions and they are not aimed at anyone in particular.

1 - The thread started as a complaint of another forum supposedly full of douchebags. Ironically, the only thing I've seen on this thread are people insulting each other either directly or by means of sarcasm. Wasn't this the more *mature* place?

2 - The linked post from U-He, regardless of what you think about piracy, is the stupidest thing (audio related) that I've read in my whole life. It turns out only people with money is entitled to make music? Of course there are free tools that do the job, but that remark wasn't on his comment though.

3 - There are lots of valid points on both sides. The problem is actually the sides. This topic is definetely not black or white, but a scary shade of grey.

4 - The concept of "stealing" is actually quite subjective. I'd say that piracy is more about "taking advantage of someone else's work" rather than stealing. I mean, if you pirate a plugin or a digital download, you are NOT taking it away from the developer. He/she still has the software and will keep selling it no matter how many people pirate it. Lack of sales may end up hurting the business and stop or slow further developing, but the product could still be selling *somewhat* indefinetely. Believe me, I've had a preciated guitar stolen and is not the same as someone downloading illegally my music, because in the end of the day I still have it. Not my guitar, though. That doesn't mean piracy is good or bad, but to me it's a whole different thing than stealing.

5 - I am a warez user, but I'm not proud of it. Because I know that I'm using someone else's work to my advantage for free, but I'm not stealing anything. The school I learnt audio had a warez version of Waves Mercury package and never felt right, specially when you can teach the same with DAW bundled plugins. I'm just a bedroom player, but If I had a commercial studio I would definetely have legit software, because then I would be making money thanks to something I didn't pay for and that doesn't feel right to me. If you want to go the legit way, there are companies like Voxengo or Klanghelm that can do the same as other more known and overpriced companies for much less.

6 - We all know that some companies charge obscene amounts of money for plugins. Switching from the car analogies, I just came from shopping at the supermarket and there is no way in hell the people that actually supply the food to them earns even a 10% of what you pay for it. The rest goes for a giant supermarket chain that spreads like a plague. Yeah, it has to pay workers and logistics (man hours, gear or I+D on plugins) but the profit earnt positioning it as one of the richest companies out there may suggest that the prices could definetely be CHEAPER. Some people steal on supermarkets as well, but they don't do it at small family stores for the very same reason crack teams don't strike indie developers as hard as they do with bigger companies.

7 - I'm a firm believer of the "try before you buy" philosophy since as a teenager bought a giant turd of an album called "Results May Vary", from Limp Bizkit. I had just heard the single, which turned out to be the ONLY decent song of the record (no Youtube back then). Those wasted 20$ hurt when you're a teen. Chances are, if you are a serious user and like (or make money of) a sotware, you will end up buying it just for the support. If there is no way you can afford the product, you WON'T buy it regardless if you pirate it or not. Devs won't see a dime for a sale that was never going to exist.

8 - Again, these are just my thoughts. Not aimed to anyone and with no intention of taking any "sides". I think the thread is losing track too fast and getting *too* personal for some dudes. And just in case, english is not my main language (so grammar police, bear with me).

 

Last edited: Aug 26, 2015

So, ClaudeBalls: I guess it's time to shutter this site. Go home, and do penitence. You make a wide breadth of sweeping statements and indictments in your diatribe. Sounds to me that you've made up your mind declaring all members who frequent this site (except yourself of course) are wanton thieves and degenerate scumbags. What punishment would you recommend?

 

NYCGRIFF and a few others.... OUR collective punishment for creating a culture of taking without paying (and living in denial about it) is that we will never get to see, hear and read the great works of art that will now never be created. The artist that was supposed to write, code, play, produce or direct those creations is working at a McDonalds for minimum wage (because why pay when I am just "trying and buying"), and will spend his life paying off credit card bills.

Instead... we'll get a new generation of Kardashians to whoreship and the government banning labels telling us what is in our "food".

My point (if I have one) is that someone should stand up for the creators and the artist and represent the effects of "stealing" are having on our society. I haven't heard one argument (exclusively pulled directly from many an anus with nary a factual basis in sight) that has convinced me that everyone with a harddrive and an internet connection is entitled to take what ever they want (to see if they might like it...). I hear a lot of people straining and twisting themselves into knots to come up with rationalizations, but I think (hope) even they know it is total BS.

I think when you "Lie before Try" you have become aware of a product that someone created that you desire. You steal it. You don't pay. You possess it. You watch, you listen, you utilize it. You participate in a transaction where you do unto others as you WOULD NOT have them do unto you. You feel bad about it so you make up reasons why it is ok. You lash out by posting angry messages on forums, saying rude things to people you have a tremendous amount in common with. People around the world who normally would like you, find you to be immature, delusional and most importantly intellectually dishonest and untrustworthy. You establish a pattern of this flawed thinking and your brief time on this earth turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy of pointless misery, suffering and regret.

We all should have some simple humility and understanding of the repercussions of our actions and then possibly our lives will amount to more than a puddle of rancid piss.

Probably not. (and you know who I'm talking to!)

CB

 

ART will always be created anyway! Art has its own impulses, not always strictly connected
to "earthly" things. A real good artist can create even when things (around) aren't the very best,
financial or personal situations, economy of a country, times of crisis, conflict & war.
But I understand what you mean, if Artists have to work too long in unfavorable situations like
hated, underpaid jobs or getting constantly exploited, sucks them a lot of time & energies out!
And in the end they'll create just stuff that contains anger, fear, resentments, envy etc...
...having not enough time to create, produce, based on own ideas can be frustrating.
The snag is: too wealthy Artists tend to create rather boring, flat or repetitive stuff.
So the key is BALANCE, keeping the balance right; give and take, share and enjoy alone.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

 

KvR? Used to be the coolest place ever. Really funny and alive with some seriously strange people making and talking about music. Now it's a bit dead, all the good folks drifted away leaving a rind of rather unpleasant attention seekers behind. Meh. Way of the world.

Cracks? Where's the money supposed to come from? iTunes? Nobody is making money out of music anymore. Nobody, Even live is hard cash these days. So where does the cash come from to pay for all these wonderful toys? The computer audio industry is like a kind of Games market where you fork out your money for a dream that never comes true. Play at having analog legacy in your studio or whatever. Whatever dream you can be sold.

The only reason there's a market for anything other than ProTools and Waves is that cracks keep the dream open. Take away the cracks, there's not a whole load of earning power to keep all these vendors afloat. You know why analog is dying? Can't get the tape anymore. Quantegy went under, RMGI went under theres just one running production line left in the whole world. It was the amateurs buying all that studio time that kept pro audio in business. No more demos, no more tape. The big artists just can't pay enough to keep the thing going.

Doesn't seem to be any shortage of VSTi vendors these days. Somebody must be paying. Even some of the freeloaders. Lock out the cracks the studio time won't come back.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2015