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KVR Audio Forum - what do you think about it?

Sure, we all know that KVR is mainly used as a trampoline for developers.
Having followed it for years in the beginning it was quite a useful site,
but nowadays things have turned worse.

Folks @ KVR react especially wicked if someone begins to talk about cracks or warez.
According to their Philosophy PIRATES are witches to hunt down and burn!!
But why so much hatred? Why that totalitarian attitude towards different thinking people?
People not fitting in their narrow nets get simply bothered or even banned.
I don't think they are doing any good - what do you think about it?
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I have never depended on the KVR forum. I use KVR as a freeware database for vst catorization/browsing, information, free presets, and surprise news for freebies from small developers. That's the way I've viewed, and used, KVR since it's inception. Gearslutz is where you go for serious discussion and inquiries. Similar to Harmony Central, KVR is hit and miss with the way people cunduct themselves, and the level of experience one has regarding the topic at hand. Just my $0.02, but I've been around for awhile, and this is my natural response concerning your question.

 

This thread again, well, I find that place usable and forum is rather avoidable because there just so many unpleasant people, but there's also some very nice too that get overshadowed by rest, dunno, visit it daily and find it very useful, there's always something happening, so yeah

 

Because they're a commercial site with ad placements and many overlords to please. I don't mind it. It's their forum, their policy. What I can't stand is the moralising.

 

Amazing, except for your spelling you took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Come on, there's lots of useful information and helpful people at KVR, and the quota of dickheads may be as high as here, taken into account that at KVR there are much more threads going on.

Is it so important to talk about warez there if you can do it here? Just ignore the lame KVR threads and use the good ones and respect that they don't tolerate warez talk at all.

 

They don't tolerate cracks talk – but why do they open threads talking about cracks?
For the rest I agree with you.

 

i really don´t know why Mr.Kookaboo comes always out which such threads in the last time

 

ITS VIRAL - its peoples hearts...they need to change...it's like here at audiosex...someone will post something beneficial and lo and behold here comes some knucklehead that has to say something dumb about the person's post. These forums all suck because of peoples bad attitudes then the powers that be in these forums want to control all of your rights...that's why I always think twice about writing a post cause I know some looser out there will need to say something dumb.

As for KVR we don't have too many outlets for such information so people will keep going through the flood gates.

 

On Z there is rules, like dont post some group files in repack. On KVR you cant talk of warez. These two things are not equal, but when you are in someone elses home you follow their wishes or you leave.

The rules of that forum does not mean no one use warez, just like here does not mean we all use warez.

There is good info and ppl there, is also shit info and ppl there. I think it is stupid to avoid it, just like it is stupid that ppl avoid here because of warez talk. Only the user avoiding is missing out. You dont need to like everyone or agree with all info, but simply follow the rules in the place.

How many dev only use kvr? To boycot kvr is to hurt many small dev.

AudioSex > KVR, but to ignore whole place because you disagree with 1 rule is stupid to me, especally when it is not impossible to follow this rule.

 

I get why 0on3 is pissed about the place and I like he`s making it air.
Also, for "independent" or so called "small scale devs" going commercial it`s probably a "must", dictated by the rules of praised "free market economy". I don`t have an opinion about KVR forum, simply not using it as a member. But I´m very thankful for the Developer Challenges over the years. Without it many fantastic freebies wouldn`t have come to life.

 

it's just a good source of information like there are many others... don't demonize the place. Take the good things and leave.
But hey.. wait.. why we are talking about any other forum?
Isn't everything we could ever need in this one, already?

 

Kook,

I don't know you, you may be a nice person....but

It is so strange... some people don't like getting their life's work stolen from them?!?!? After putting years and years into educating themselves and working to get through school, borrowing money from the bank, their girlfriends and family to start their own business and then THEY act like total JERKS when some entitled no-talent nobody complains that the crack of their software they stole doesn't work perfectly. SOME PEOPLE HUH?

Some people are just SO INTOLERANT of other people's different thinking.


Why don't you go to toyota.com to complain about how the air conditioning sucks on the new Prius you just stole?

[BTW I am not judging you for stealing, I am judging you for being stupid enough and mean spirited enough to go rub their noses in it.]

 

You cannot control what's out of your range of control. Skip if you don't like my threads.
Never heard about feeding a forum? BTW: I also give a helping hand or advices
in many other threads. This one might be to just ask for opinions.

 

You mean they don't like loosing potential sales/money from selling copies of their life's work?

Surprise, car analogy, if I had a nickle every time someone used it on audio forum and failed doing it, you almost had it, close, like the part of complaining about something you don't have right to, but stealing part, no, not even on court...we are talking about copies of software plugins, not related to cars or physical objects, what is stolen there, potential sale from copy or right to use the same, how that can be stolen, copyright infringement, breaking EULA, but stealing, no sir and I want let that slide, I know I know, many times repeated lie become truth, yeah, this one surely is becoming one of those....

 

Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2015

Xsze,

You can play games in your head, you can rationalize it all you want. Objectively, scientifically, mathematically IT IS taking something that you didn't pay for. You ARE enjoying the benefit/experience of purchasing that product without compensating the authors.

It is not complicated. The developers and companies that create these tools did it to make money. You took it for free.

Only a generation of spoiled morons that still live with their parents would have a hard time comprehending that. You can pretend that you weren't going to buy that product so it isn't a lost sale and it didn't hurt the developer at all that you took it, but if you were really honest with yourself (and us) you know that line is bullshit. Stealing IS actually wrong.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."


You wouldn't like it if some meathead came up to you at the end of a sweaty brutal week of your shitty job and took 75% your paycheck and said "hey they saw you did a good job cleaning these toilets, they're going to hire you to clean some other really nicer toilets.... next time....maybe"

I guess it is the kind of thing that doesn't make sense until you are on the receiving end of it.

To be clear I am not throwing stones about the act of theft. People are always going to steal. I am calling you out on your rationalization that what you are doing isn't stealing and that you aren't hurting anyone. You have no moral stance here.

Grow up.

I am not talking about is one a thief or not a thief, I am saying are you an asshole or are you an asshole?

If you have to steal, then steal. Don't steal then pretend it is ok (and go rub their faces in it), or lie to yourself (and everyone else) pretending you have a right to someone else's work.

 

Wow you are ignorant as hell and have no idea what your talking about when it comes to warez. Nice try though.

 

it's so easy to talk about stealing, when it's about digital content.
tell me, when i pay 150 euros for a plugin, that, probably, i won't like, after all, that turns out being too complicated or too boring to use, or the few sounds on the demo were average, but all the other on the retail version suck, probably, i will never make a full track with that plugin, nor will i become famous and rich, a plugin that i can't offer, or sell, a plugin that i might only be able to use during one full year, because next year, i am forced to upgrade my windows version, and the plugin isn't compatible anymore, unless i buy an expensive update/new version, a plugin that YES, might have needed some time to code,but, meanwhile, all the coding already exists on internet, nyquish theories, zero delay filters, and all the jazz, other people already coded it, and it's only a matter of copying and adapting, just like using Juke infrastructure to build plugins/gui's/etc,
a plugin that may be really bad coded, and eats up 90% of a recent cpu with a single instance, which kills all the workflow, a plugin that may come with some severe bugs, that, even reported, the dev may NEVER correct them with a new version, a plugin that comes with ZERO warranties, that may have some severe bugs, that might create a 1000db peak sound, and destroy my ears or speakers, a plugin that most of the time, i can't even demo, or demo correctly, without 80% of the features locked, a plugin that may corrupt or make my computer/daw unstable,
a plugin that, at the end, doesn't even deserve 20% of the price,
etc etc etc,

a plugin that the dev will code ONCE, and will be able to sell 1 billion times, at no extra cost, for the next 30 years (i'm still waiting for my damn Largo 64bits... if i hadn't an elicenser, i would use the warez version!), a plugin that might never see a price drop, due to the dev probably being a grandson of hitler and inheriting his side "i am smarter than you all, and i will smash you all with a tank, because i decided i would, and i can do all i want", a plugin that, once done, may remain at V1.0 forever, etc etc,

am i being stolen, when i buy this plugin ? YES, i AM. with the anti-consumer policies those digital products use, to protect themselves while taking away the smallest right from the buyer, ARE NOT FAIR at all.
since the moment a guy clicks on "pay", he is already being treated like a thief. and when he installed the plugin, the user contract almost give the right to the dev, to ask people to email them, if they make a track with their plugin. do they want to see my dick, when i use more than 3 instances ?

a restaurant, for selling a pizza, needs a warehouse, employees, food, electricity, wood, has to pay taxes, has to pay the rent, etc etc, without ANY warranty he will sell ONE pizza

a store like ikea, needs a warehouse, employees, wood, tons of man-hours, has to pay rents, taxes, and a ton of other things, without any warranty he might sell one chair or table

a dev, he codes an app, with 95% of the code copied/pasted from other plugins-devs-theories-formulas-etc, can create a blog, use a free ecommerce solution, uploads his app, and in 5 minutes, is ready to sell 1 or 10'000 copies, at a random high price, that only a few guys with a great financial situation may be able to purchase.

At the end, with these digital items, often sold at ridiculous prices, with anti-consumer policies,
who is stealing ? Us (naughty pirates!) ? or both ?
i would say both.

we may not be saints (ok, only SAiNT actually IS), but devs, are far from being nice gentle virgin girls, wearing a pink dress while drinking a vanilla milkshake.

and i am sure, many guys that never heard about warez, and suddenly, start searching for it, it's because they purchased a plugin or instrument, spent big money on it, and were disgusted with the product quality. and they don't want to repeat the experience, by buying other plugins that they might end up not liking.

fuck, why couldn't i be able to ask for a refund, if i buy, say, Dune 2, and i don't like it ? ok, it would be hard to prove that i'm not using it.
but in the case of cubase, or any other elicenser-ilok app, if we asked a refund, next elicenser-ilok sync, my license would go away.
why can't we ask for a refund, if a daw is too complicated, or a plugin eats up too much cpu, or the virtual instrument sounds like shit, and i don't want it anymore ?

oh yeah... digital product... we can go fuck ourselves.

 

Last edited: Aug 22, 2015

it's another pitiful and poor owner of a BMW M5 / Cl 500, DEV, with a 4 cm long and 2 nuts, that dares coming here and calling all people thieves, but don't have 2 mature and grown up balls to say which plugins he sells. another guy that is proud of his short black mustache, and would turn on the hovens in auchwitz, to burn every single member of this forum. my neighbor grandmother has some golden teeth, should i introduce her?

 

Wouala,

I stand by my post. You can rant and rave all you want about why you feel entitled to take something that you didn't pay for but the final black and white truth is you are stealing.

You have a few good points about being unable to return software and developers that go out of business and can't support the investment you would have made (in your imagination) but it doesn't mean you are entitled to steal what you want. There is so much information, demos, youtube videos and reviews available now for everything that comes out, you can't possibly justify stealing products because you are a lazy (theoretical) consumer. You would have to be so ignorant to get burned at this point.

Steal it if you must but don't pretend that it is justifiable or that you are in the right.

Do onto others as you would have them do unto you.

Everything else is bullshit.


You know, at the end of all of this the people that are actually getting fucked the worst in all of this are the ones that love music, love books, love movies and love creating. Because this generation feels entitled to take whatever they want the independent artists, authors, labels, developers have all been driven out of business and are living in their parents basements broke. Everyone at the lower end of the budget scale is getting wiped out. The world is being deprived of this era's art and culture. Instead anyone within shouting distance of a radio, tv or streaming device is being force fed a steady diet of corporate trash and programming that makes you demonstrably less intelligent for having listened to it. The only entities surviving this climate are the giant mega corporations that own the pipes and the delivery system and sell the garbage they pump down those pipes.

Dave Grohl's question "Can you imagine Bob Dylan going on America's Got Talent and singing "Blowing In The Wind"?"