Hello Everyone,

I have some information to share with the community in regards to Steinberg Cubase Pro 8 as I am a Cubase user who upgraded from Cubase 7.5 to Cubase Pro 8.

This is my setup:

OS: Windows 7 64bit
CPU: I7 960 Bloomfield
Motherboard: Socket 1366 ASUS P6X58D-E
BIOS: American MegaTrends v0701
Memory: 12GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 Triple Channel
Graphic Card: MSI HD7970 3GB Twin Frozr III R7970 TF3GD5/OC BE
Monitor: 2x ASUS PB278Q, no crossfire & no eyefinity configurations, just a simple extended display.

Now the story goes is that I have had AMD graphic driver issues with my past 2x AMD Graphic Cards being (1) ASUS Radeon HD5870 v2 & (2) MSI HD7970 3GB Twin Frozr III R7970 TF3GD5/OC BE, where the "Display Driver" will crash randomly on Windows 7, as a result of this issue the screen will flash black for a second or 2 & then the "Display Driver" will recover & I can continue on as normal, Windows calls this error "Display Driver has Stopped Responding".

Here is a copy of the Windows 7 Event Log when the Display Driver stops working:

Code:

- System 

- Provider 

[ Name]  Display 

- EventID 4101 

[ Qualifiers]  0 

Level 3 

Task 0 

Keywords 0x80000000000000 

- TimeCreated 

[ SystemTime]  2014-12-11T08:46:18.000000000Z 

EventRecordID 200548 

Channel System 

Computer mark-PC 

Security 


- EventData 

amdkmdap 

The conclusion being is I have experienced this issue with 2x different AMD graphic cards, on fresh Windows installations, & ever since the first drivers I installed which I believe was version 11.10 or 11.11 & now it is upto 14.12 & this issue still persists.

I can not pinpoint what exactly causes the "Display Driver" to stop responding as it just seems random.

Moving on:

A graphic related bug I am experiencing with Cubase which seems fairly specific to Cubase, becuase it does not happen anytime outside of Cubase, is where the "Windows Desktop Manager has Stopped Working", the symptoms of this error are the screen will flash black for a second or two, the same way as when the "Display Driver" crashes & recovers. However the "Windows Desktop Manager" error is more serious because it tends to bug out my "Windows Aero Theme - Visual Effect Settings" to varying degrees, whether its the "Glass Transparency" or the "Desktop Composition" etc, depending on "how well it recovers".

Incase you don't know , the "Windows Desktop Manager" is the manager for the "Windows Aero Themes" & such.

Now this is where the story gets funky in regards to Cubase Pro 8.

Cubase Pro 8's dockable windows design is somehow stupidly "hard coded" to "Windows Aero Themes", this was verified when I tested the "Windows Aero - Visual Effect Settings" individually & discovered that the "Cubase Pro 8 Menu bar" is linked to this Windows Aero - Visual Effect Setting named "Desktop Composition", when this is disabled the Cubase Pro 8 Menu bar will completely disappear leaving you with no access to any of the menus / options in the menu bar lol.

So whenever I use Cubase Pro 8 & have the "Windows Desktop Manager" crash, it will recover back but more often then not with NO MENU BAR as it disappears completely from Cubase Pro 8.


So it turns out I need to buy a Nvidia graphic card in the future to verify that it is my AMD graphic cards & drivers causing these ridiculous issues, but this also revealed to me the poor design with Cubase Pro 8 & how it is "hard coded" in relation to Windows 7 Aero Themes.


As a result of these issues I have had to revert back to Cubase 7.5, as it is NOT "hard coded" to the Windows Aero Themes therefor it does not have disappearing Menu Bars. However I have wasted my money on the Cubase Pro 8 Upgrade as I literally can not use it until I buy a Nvidia Graphic Card.

I was wondering if anyone else was experiencing similar issues involving AMD Graphic Cards ? & I wanted to provide this information to the community as it needs to be considered if your looking at purchasing Steinberg Cubase Pro 8.

 

have you tried running win7 without aero? (win7 basic display theme)

 

No I havn't tried that yet, but According to my research you will receive a Windows Error saying something about Aero needs to be "Enabled".

Ill try it now & report back.

Update: Steinberg has really out-done themselfs this time.



"DWM" stand for "Desktop Windows Manager" & thats the one causing the disapearing Menu Bar when it crashes.

 

ahh, it would be interesting to know if this bug also appears with win8 because aero has been removed

 

Problem

On Windows 7, the error message "DWM composition is not running. Please switch to an Aero theme" prevents Cubase Pro/Artist 8 from starting.

Cause

Cubase Pro/Artist 8 requires an active Windows Aero on Windows 7.
In addition a graphics card (GPU) with DirectX 10 and WDDM 1.1 support is required for running Cubase Pro/Artist 8.
Please see the system requirements at this link:
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/specs_downloads.html

Solution

On Windows 7 it is necessary to have "Desktop composition" enabled. You can enable this in the Performance Options panel in Windows.

- Hold down the Windows key and press Pause/Break (or Start -> Control Panel -> System)
- When the System panel appears, click on "Advanced system settings" (left side pane)
- In the Advanced tab, under the Performance Section, click on Settings



- In the Performance Options window (under the Visual Effects tab), flag the "Enable desktop composition" option.
- Enable "Use visual styles on windows and buttons"
- The "Enable transparent glass" and "Enable Aero Peek" are optional.
- After enabling the options, click Apply and then OK.



Please note that the "Aero" and "Desktop composition" entries might be missing if you have disabled Windows services or set them to manual.
In this case, selecting a default Aero theme (right-click on Desktop -> Properties) should work and automatically switch the functionality on - if not, you will have to activate the Windows services manually:

- Click on Start menu, type "services" in the search field and open Component Services.
- Select Services on the left pane.
- Scroll down to find "Themes", right-click on it and select Properties.
- In the "Themes Properties" panel, set Startup type to "Automatic"
- Lastly, when running older programs, Windows could switch to non-Aero mode to force compatibility. In this instance, such programs should not run when Cubase 8 is active.

You can find additional information about Aero at the following links:

windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/troubleshoot-problems-with-windows-aero

Aero troubleshooter:
windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/open-the-aero-troubleshooter

 

try switching visual effects off (custom) one at a time and see if that helps

 

That would be very interesting indeed ;)

& I have already tested the "Aero Visual Effects Settings" individually as mentioned in the O.P, It is purely the "Aero Visual Effect setting" named "Desktop Composition" that is the problem, if that did NOT bug out I would be able to continue working in Cubase Pro 8. For eg. I could have ALL of the other "Aero Visual Effects - Disabled" except for the "Desktop Composition" (Which is essential to have enabled for the menu bar) & I will still get the "Windows Desktop Manager crash" which will still bug out the "Desktop Composition" , Having LESS "Aero Visual Effect settings enabled" does NOT prevent the "Windows Desktop Manager" from crashing , which apparently is related to my AMD Graphic Card Driver.


@ theDingus:

Thanks for trying to help buddy but ive already been through all that stuff, I don't mess around with Windows enough to screw anything up, most stuff stays "Stock Standard".

Your post basically just better describes my situation, but heres my settings anyway:

 

Feel for you Mark it's not what you want, I'm no help here but I'd be getting steinberg to do some recoding and getting their program fixed, unless they specify that you setup isn't compatible, doesn't sound like it should be though

 

Damn. I wish I could have helped you get out of this mess. I plan to upgrade this weekend. (I have a project with a hard deadline to complete first - I can't take any chances in case the upgrade doesn't go well)

If I encounter any additional info that may be of help to you, I'll be sure to pass it on.

 

I had a similar experience with a new asus h97-pro board recently, with the display driver quiting and recovering several times a minute til it completely crashed. Very easy to replicate while playing warcraft.

The board has 2 seperate graphics slots and I tried 4 seperate cards with it and it was only a really old pcie 2 card that worked in the top slot. I tested with 3 amd cards and one nvidia and both amd and nvidia had graphics crashes.

All 4 cards worked fine, with no crashes in the the lower graphics card slot.

So my problem was not with amd or nvidia but with the pcie slot i was using.

Looking at a pic of your board it looks like you have 2 slots as well. Have you had crashes using both slots seperately?

Have you tested your ram recently? Try using windows built in memory test and get a copy of memtest86+ and run that overnight.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, troubleshooting random crashes is very frustrating at the best of times.

 

thanks for your reply, its very informative & interesting to say the least.

I can confirm that I have NOT tested the 2nd & 3rd PCIE slots yet. The RAM has been tested several times with MemTest86+ over the years & its always passed, It doesn't "feel" like a RAM issue personally but its something I can test again.

According to the Board Specifications: Heres link to my Motherboard for anyone interested http://www.asus.com/au/Motherboards/P6X58DE/overview/

Expansion Slots
3 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x16, x8, x8 or x16, x16, x1)
1 x PCIe x1
2 x PCI

I have a question which is what exactly determines the (x16, x8, x8 or x16, x16, x1) configurations ? Does it just depend on what type of cards I put in ? Its not configured through BIOS or anything like that ? Just curious as ofcourse I would want a x16 for my Graphic Card.

I have another question which is, does changing PCIE slots for the Graphic Card require for the driver to be reinstalled ? or does it work fine seamlessly between slots ?

Its definitely somtheing worth trying

 

checked for bios updates to motherboard and video card bios updates?

 

Yes, everythings upto date

 

This is a long shot but you can try loosening your RAM timings (raising tRFC can also make a difference for stability in some cases) or run at a lower RAM speed, or run with one stick of RAM temporarily. Worked on my overclocked Asus board when I was getting unexplained crashes from streaming Flash videos. It was so hard to pin the RAM problem down because I wouldn't get crashes from playing games. You'd think that would stress the RAM more, but no, something about the combination of video and streaming online would cause it to crash.

 

Hi, try to increase memory volt to 2.2, if not boot then try 2.1.

Eboe

 

Hi, you're on a 58 chipset so try 1.72v NOT 2.2v on your memory config. or try to increse your settings with +0,5v ...
eboe

 

I appreciate the suggestions guys , but it doesn't have anything to do with overclocking or voltages, its either faulty RAM or its not. This can be diagnosed with MemTest86+ & by testing system functionality with 1 stick at a time.

The Corsair Vengeance RAM was one of the low voltage kits @ 1.5V that was released into the market quite sometime after the release of DDR3 Triple Channel , so it wasn't some new noob high voltage kit etc.

Im going to try changing the graphic card into a new PCIE slot, if problems persist then all I can do is buy a Nvidia Graphic Card & New RAM, & if problems persist after that it looks like im in for a new PC Build with a full re-installation of everything yay !

 

I do wonder why If I simply want to make music I need to have a supergraphic card with integrated cooling system. We're musicians not gamers! *no*
Have you already submitted a support ticket to Steinberg? In my experience they are fast and reliable so it would be worth a try IMHO.

 

I need the super graphic card because I am a gamer & I am playing games nearly everyday lol, the 7970 is only a $300 card & is not even that super ? I could purchase a cheaper nvidia card for testing purposes, but im the kind of guy who goes the whole way or none at all, so I would NEED atleast a good mid level entry graphic card to keep me satisfied.

Its not worth contacting Steinberg about these issues because they are not going to re-code their program just for me, im just going to have to wait & hope they fix it so its not hard coded to Windows 7 Aero Themes.

As Willum mentioned it could very well possibly be a faulty PCIE slot, actually it could be many things.

Im a experienced overclocker / system builder , I overclocked for 4 years & have built a dozen systems over the years so im no stranger to understanding the potential of gremlins in a system & have alot of experience with all sorts of varying computer issues (As nearly everything I buy these days is faulty, lol) & I can usually diagnose issues just by the "feeling" of it, but this one I havn't figured out yet but I do have some ideas to try , just a lack of money thats preventing me from doing so

Heres some pics of 2 of my past PC Builds for anyone interested.

http://i.imgur.com/P8k6HlN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TDWJJCA.jpg

The main point of this thread was just to simply share my user experience & to point out the poor Cubase Pro 8 design in relation to Windows Aero Themes . I understand that im basically looking at a new system build But im not interested in supporting Cubase Pro 8 any further until the Windows 7 Aero crap is sorted out, I am happy to use 7.5 until then, even though 8 has some nice updated features. If Steinberg fail to address this then they have lost a customer, simple as that.

UPDATE: Im going to try switching the Graphic Card into a new PCIE slot & do some testing, I will post back results when im ready.

 

I've got a hd 4780 oc had problems from day one, it would just boot with black screen and a load of bleeps from bios, then two months ago I installed a free vst 1984 and now I got same issue as you.
When watching films or using waves plugs I get speckles all over the screen and Ati driver stops, I have found that if I keep it under 55°C and some new thermal paste has helped but has not stopped it.
A friend of mine had three Ati cards go on him in time I've had one. My motherboard is a Asus workstation board with no built graphics. So like you I'm looking down the Nvdia road, something from the quadro series.