Classical/Orchestral music is my favorite genre and I really want to compose orchestral music(want to compose like Bach,Joe Hisaishi,Zimmer *yes* ).I have several one shot orchestral sample packs like Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra,some sample/loop packs downloaded from AudioZ,several orchestral dedicated VST plugins such as Garriton Personal Orchestra,World Instruments etc,All Orchestral Ableton Live Packs and PROJECTSAM Colors Kontakt Lib.I want to learn the process of composing orchestral music and elements of an Orchestra.[I'm not that great in keyboard playing and music theory but I'm improvising).
I also downloaded Groove3-MIDI Orchestration Explained which is a damn good tuto :dancing:

Please shed some light on the subject? Where should I begin?

Recommendation for new Artists,Lib,VSTs would be great!
Thanks in advance

 

A trip of 1000 miles start by one single step, so the same rule you must apply on your wish ...

Take some of notation software and start with composing.

Notion, for example, work great with Garritan library and Aria player, you should check some youtube videos for this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axFyeQqxSpc

(explore this subject !)

You should listen and study a lot of classical stuff. You should learn basics of music theory of course.

One of the first - basic rule for orchestral production is orchestra positioning in space, so here it is:



After all, you can move to any DAW and use libraries by taste. In the future, when you become a ninja, you can use only DAW.

... and that's all.

 

you will need to improve your music theory, piano/keyboard skills are not so important, using notational software can be all done by the computer keyboard, but understanding music theory is important.

 

I disagree almost completely.

How to read and write sheet music not needed at all if You are "in box" producer/composer ( or You can always export recorded midi session and software will translate everything to sheet music if needed)

From my experience I can tell that having deep music theory knowledge is somewhat useful and at the same time it's holding back Your creativity
( Just because You know what is optimal and desired standard You might not do any experiments.. and make something ...different, and much often great composition)


You can build amazing tracks just by having those "piano skills".


Base melody (getting a good idea is most difficult part) >> adding sections ( filling spectrum ) >> harmonies >> drums and filler sounds
This is only one of methods of approaching comp.

Start doing covers of favorite tracks and start braking them down one by one.
You will notice most type of patterns (so much for music theory) and with that as a base You can develop Your own style.



Regards


Noctrune

 

You should know music theory, if not then it equates to wanting to communicate and not knowing a language. If you program in C++ you don't say I don't need to know the language, you either know it or you don't code C++ programs. Also knowing music theory doesn't mean you can't experiment in fact I think those experiments can sometimes yield more fruitful results because you're controlling your chaos. In my opinion you should know the rules of a system in order to effectively break them. If he were trying to make Industrial I would say you don't necessarily need it (though many famous Industrial artists actually know music theory) but when we're talking orchestral/soundtrack stuff you should know theory. You should know what works and what doesn't, you should understand why things work or don't, what makes a melody good, how to deal with instrumentation, harmony and voicing and all that good stuff. Counterpoint is a good idea as well. Why remake the wheel when there is a framework for this sort of stuff, it doesn't mean you have to adhere to classical guidelines because some of those are broken regularly but you should know the framework and then learn how you can twist it to your own creative benefit.

 

i'd also recommend this tutorial handbook Acoustic.and.MIDI.Orchestration.for.the.Contemporary.Composer.pdf

also a few instruments you didnt mention

ARIA.Sounds.Catalyst.Percussion.KONTAKT Catalyst ;pppppppp
Spitfire.Audio.LLP.Solo.Strings.KONTAKT
ARIA.Sounds.Violinist.KONTAKT
8Dio.Adagietto.RePack.KONTAKT
Spitfire.Audio.Percussion.Redux.v.1.3.KONTAKT
Garritan.Gofriller.Solo.Cello.VSTi.DXi.RTAS.AU.HYBRID.DVDR
IK.Multimedia.Miroslav.Philharmonik

good luck on your journey

 

You must become a copycat.
The best way is listening to what other people do and copy them in the beginning. Once you master techniques you start composing on your own.
Somebody already stressed here the importance of theory and I will do the same: it is very important to read music and analyze scores in order to understand how composers orchestrate. When you will be able to read music I suggest you read and study hard the following books:

1. Principles of orchestration, Rymsky-Korsakov (here a wonderful online version)
2. Orchestration, Walter Piston
3. Harmony, Walter Piston
4. Counterpoint, Walter Piston

These will give a solid classical theory to start with. The second part of the work is the more important: practice and there nobody can help you because it is the creative part on itself. Whether you start composing using notation, the piano roll in some DAW or your keyboard input, only your taste and musical culture will guide you forward.

 

Nice to altern theory/tutorials AND practice. Too much practice will make you run in circle on the same thing. Too much tuts/theory will lead you to nothing in the real world.

Apart that, you can start by programming by sections only (brass, strings, percs...). There are libs for that, like the small and impressive garritan instant orchestra (put a little aural exciter on it to help mix) or Project SAM ORCHESTRAL ESSENTIALS.

And after that or at the same time, add more subtle elements with a full library like Garritan Personnal Orchestra, EWQLSO and such.

starting by full sections will be more rewarding at first, and it is a method used by well known ppl to create their symphonic "beds".
After all, everything has a start

Have fun !

 

Sorry Nocturne I personally disagree with most of what you have written

Personally that's rubbish imo. Many world class musicians have stated that once they learned musical theory or 'correctness' it opened up a whole different dimension. You can't simply say a deep seated understanding of musical theory stifles creativity. More often than not these people already know how to play this stuff but learning Theory normally gives them a whole other multide of options especially creatively wise i.e in guitar linking modes i.e Dorian etc etc can lead you to the point of being able to effectively improvise over any given chord structure.

Of course Musical theory is of vital importance when wanting to further your knowledge of Classical Music.

However that is not to say you can't then apply what is correct & create something completly new. For example Eric Johnson applied it to Hexatonic scale structures out of his vast profound knowledge of Pentatonic shapes & how they linked across the fretbord so how did his deep seated knowledge of correctness stifle creativity in that sense? I'm not saying you must learn but if you do it will definitely serve you better in the long run with regards to creativity 'outside the box'.

I would say what is paramount is to listen, listen & listen again and try and attach your ears to the various scale shapes ect till you become so familiar that thinking about becomes second nature. Then take stock & re analyze. Then you will have the best grounding available upon which to expand your creativity & understand what you are doing & which direction you wish to take it.

Also I would suggest that Ableton is possibly not the best choice of DAW but that is always up to you. It is a very long road & I wish u the best of luck *yes*

 

I had music theory, historical organology and formal music history in my sound design school last year, which I thought sucked ass in the beginning but in the end REALLY expanded my mind in terms of thinking about sound and its impact! So I think I can give you a little bit of strategic insight. Here's what I think you should do in order to build a skillset for composing classical music. These need to be developed in parallel and can help you a lot. Don't feel overwhelmed. This takes a while.

1. Listen to the Classical Music of all eras: From the Middle Ages to Renaissence to Barock (mainly Bach) to Wiener Classic (Haydn, Mozart and esp. B E E T H O V E N), Romantic (early, middle, late; Brahms <> Wagner – basically all film scoring is based on the principals of the late romantic era), so-called post-tonal and other concepts of Music (Music after 1913/45), Listen to Jazz also to see how to break/bend the rules ;)
2. Educate yourself on the basic ideas and concepts of music and life/society of every of these epochs and try to understand HOW music relates to that
3. Learn what types of Methods of composing, forms and ideas about music every epoch devoloped, which remained, which faded away and why.
4. Try to develop a sense of how music is structured and how to distinguish one epoch from another. Because this will help you in getting the feeling you want to evoke certain emotions.
5. In order to do so you need to understand basic MUSIC THEORY – it is mandatory and fundamental! You are almost there if you UNDERSTAND this thoroughly: What is a scale? What's major? What's Minor? What's a Chord? What's a Chord inversion? When do I us it? What's a Dominant 7th Chord? (Understanding the concept of this one entirely is actually of utmost importance! It's THE key to swithing between Modes and Scales flawlessly) What are the tonal relations inside a scale (like Chords, their qualities, their tonal Relationships and their emotional impact) For this: Barock is a good starting point. Because it is structured relatively simple and is centered around the bass just like pop music.
6. Understand the Instrument Groups used in an Orchestra how they are organized sonically and how they interact with one another. MOST IMPORTANT: use the instruments in their intended tonal and loudness range and their style of playing! You cannot use a piccolo flute for example and play it in the Range of c1 to c2. Here's a picture of the carnegie Hall chart for reference: http://www.gcmstudio.com/imagesonly/carnegie_note.jpg >> Put it on your wall
7. Learn and understand metrics, note lengths and measures and their impressions… in other words: learn to count. Theres a difference in expression in a 3/4 measure versus a 6/8 measue!
8. Try to learn read musical scores or at least have a look at them. You will see that there are a lot of layers present. Try to understand the basic articalations
9. Train your ears by trying to recognize intervals. It helps you a lot in composing…
10. Use this awesome youtube channel to see visualizations of classical scores music: https://www.youtube.com/user/musanim

Also important: Find a DAW you like to work with and you know thoroughly in order to route stuff from Kontakt or whatever to different channels when working with big Libraries! I strongly oppose using Notation Software in the beginning when you're coming from a whole other musical Background. Save that for later maybe. You only really need a notation software if you actually work with an orchestra who needs the notes to play! Last but not least, go to http://imslp.org/ and bookmark it. There you will find all types of scores that are in public domain. Some with MIDI files to import in your DAW and play around with It's a great resource.

I hope this helps.

 

It's not J.S. Bach but Daniel James (one of the good guys):

http://www.youtube.com/user/dazexus

He uses Ableton Live. But "classical" is relative..

 

You absolutely need music theory. Id recommend school, n i guess u can pick up a book n teach yourself but why would u wanna do that when it comes to such a complex subject. You are eventually gonna have questions.

 

Thanks for the Link to the Channel! Much apprechiated!

Just saw this. Seamless R working on a track in FL Studio with some classical kind of string arrangement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Z2l00tikM

 

Massive thanks for your awesome reply

 

Thanks for your reply

And yea I'm improvising my Music theory

 

Massive thanks for your reply

And yea I'm improvising my Music theory

 

Thanks for your reply

Surely gonna download them all

 

Massive thanks for your reply

I was trying to remake some of Zimmer's compositions on Live.Very hard tho but yes getting inspired/copying and then composing our own work is one of the best method

Thanks for the wonderful books there.Loved the Principles of Orchestration.

Once again thanks

 

Massive thanks for your reply

Garritan is a awesome library.And I guess PROJECTSAM's live packs are still not available on AudioZ(searching a lot for them,any source yet?)

 

Thanks for your reply

I had been watching his videos(mostly are of reviews but still great!)