Excuse my ignorance, but what are "greek modules" ?

 

Just start with the Stargate video... I'd say those dudes know what they are on about when it comes to writing pop music and you won't get much better advice than that...

Reading the comments the better advice is on the same lines as what Stargate say. Just listen to those dudes and figure it out from there. Unless anybody in here has had several Billboard Chart hits I don't think you'll get anywhere near as good advice as that. Katy Perry, Beyonce, Rihanna... They write huge hits for huge artists. It sounds like exactly the advice that you were looking for... Start there and then come back if you need more advice.

 

Every music has a soul. The spirit of music is not formed by pressing buttons and pushing them up and down.

The soul of music is formed by artists who never appear on YouTube and who play the main role in creating pop works.

Pop music is the result of a collective thinking, and looking at the producers who are playing with electronic devices, does not increase the understanding of pop art and making even one of them.

Unfortunately, pop artists are never available to talk to about their works and ask them how to make one. By artists, I mean a wide range of people. Singers, Costume designers, Cinematographers, idea makers, directors and ... .

 

very upfront vocals, simple (almost dumb) lyrics, well-produced polished arrangement, copycating another famous song(s), hot chick
- that's all you need

example 1:

example 2:

example 3 (if you're brave to add real electric guitar solo in the end):

(as you can see, all those examples around 300-400 million views)

 

bouncing tits ideally, but not confused with porn

 

Which means that if anybody in here is behind these hits they can't offer advice on how to write them...

So the Stargate video is about as close as you will ever get to the Stargate/Max Martin kind of approach to making 'Pop Music'... Or you can listen to people who don't write Billboard Number Ones tell you how they don't do it.

 

Avoid it

 

the ignorance might be from my side. Is it greek modes?
Ioanian, Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian...

Ok, you're the second person to recommend me their video. It seems I really should check what they have to say, thanks!!

 

listen to a lot of classic pop tunes, beatles, beach boys, the turtles. archive.org has an archive available of 15 years or so of typical broadcast music shows from the late 1950's to the early 1970's. its called "cruisin" - i can pm you the link if i can find it again,.

the idea is you hear the music of the era in context with the other music, and get a feel for the compsitional structures that were sucessful as well as understanding of how to structure lyrics and boy they have a wide range of lyrics. These shows were all reconstructed as CD quality including commercials of the time and each one is executed by a different disc jockey who was working in the era and is geographically linked to the city they were in, so Seattle, NYC,Atlanta,Los Angeles etc.

also try to keep your songs under 3 minutes. its amazing to see what they can make in 2 minutes on some of these songs..

 

yess!
unfortunately your examples do prove your point.
many of those songs feel like a good polished copy of an earlier hit song, with superficial lyrics.
i was hoping to make something less copy-cat, like the mentioned song Diamonds (i heard SIA wrote the song in less than 15 minutes)

 

Oh alright. I didn't put that together. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

sure @Garamondo Furbish, if you find the link you can PM me or post here too (for others who might be interested).
i've listened a lot of beatles when i was younger, all their albums from first up to the white one. Wouldnt mind at all listening again.

 

i know you said youre an alternative and indie songwriter, in that scene, people dont care about looks but songs can still have mainstream crossover. like this was the last big viral song that crossed over, its still pop songwriting though and has everything i mentioned, just for an alternative audience

her lyrics are actually very abstract in the first half, and the whole theme of the song is around self love. this charted on billboard last year

this song is on the billboard charts right now, it was intended for the indie scene, which the audience likes synthpop

then dream pop is a whole alternative pop style, next jangle pop, noise pop, art pop. like theres pop genres that appeal to that audience, like Beach House is killing it in that scene and they have mainstream appeal/have influenced mainstream artists

basically you dont have to sell out from the scene and style youre into to make a pop hit. theres tons of examples in indie and alternative music, that have mainstream crossover - the way indie and pop is now are very blurred lines

 

you gotta decide what kind of pop you want to achieve, what target audience etc.. no matter what you try inevitably you'll reach audience of your age primarily,
if you want radio-ready bangers, you can't avoid (personally) reaching some radio stations,
if you want festival-ready bangers, you can't avoid (personally) reaching some festival organizers,
if you want viral-short-cuts, then you can't avoid building up fanbase on tiktok, youtube etc...
either way, don't expect 100M listeners all out of sudden, no matter how good music you can make it won't help you stand out in top pop charts,
if you really like making music, then start building your reputation, continuously and consistently - one hit can't save you nowadays

 

heyy the king.
I get it. Those artist don't make their songs by themselves and have huge teams with the top industry professionals working with them.
Is not easy at all. And yes thinking is always needed.

But sometimes i feel like the writer doesn't care THAT much about the lyrics as i do. A lot of those songs were made with really poor rhymes, and in a short spam of time. While i usually take long time think my lyrics and give them a deep meaning.

When i said not overthinking, i just meant no to be so attached to it. Do more like Sia, or Dua lipa make the lyrics in one day and forget about it, just making small adjustments/improvements afterwards, even if the lyrics are not perfect.

 

@Grape Ape wow i like the first song. really good.
Reminds me a little of Lana del Rey which is another pop artist with alternative influences.

IDK if you know this. But this djo guy, was already famous before making any song.
He is a main character in Netflix series "Stranger Things" which is full of 80's reference.
He basically had his audience even before his first release.
That doesn't make you any wrong though, his song really is feels targeted to a more indie like audience, reaching the mainstream too.

Last but not least Beach House another great example. They not only have mainstream crossover, but their song "Silver Soul" was sampled to make "Money Trees" by Kendrick Lamar, so i'd say a little crossover to rap music too (?).

Last year i was listening a lot to Steve Lacy, just another example of an artist which has a great deal of alternative influence while reaching the billboard charts with a mainstream audience. Which again proves your point.

Yes that's great advice, i'll try not to drift too far from the scene and from my roots. Find a middleground

 

Last edited: Apr 17, 2024

you're so right. i got to make my mind.
That what you just said is the definition of "marketing" and nowadays every single musician needs a good marketing, if he wants to reach a wide audience

Also the advice of reaching personally the institution is goldd!! thankss

 

Last edited: Apr 17, 2024

I don't think any of us are the people behind the scenes. Usually, the curtains in the music world are thick and it is not easy to see behind them even with an X-ray.

The only people who are easily visible are the singer and the band, who are only visible on the stage when the music is being performed. And these people do not leak much information about the moments and process of making their music.

Music is not like a movie where the names of the actors are written at the end of the movie. These agents are not accessible and can only be accessed when you are introduced to them by their acquaintances. And no one even knows the names of their acquaintances. Almost these people work secretly and do not publish the secrets of their work, whether artistic, commercial, audience finders, etc., because the basis of economic work in today's world is the belief in the principle of keeping company's secrets.

 

yeah man for sure, i didnt know if he would be a good example because of that but its current. but as you probably know theres others, like these chicks went from regular jobs, made tiktoks > to indie label > charting > making a living with it > to winning grammys and brit awards, off of this one indie rock/post-punk song

its all in the songwriting, if you got pop songwriting in your bag, youll always be able to make a living with your music; youll also be able to write songs for other artist who dont have it; but will pay a lot